Toques! Show your original ones please

[Jos L C]

Well,to put it another way..
How to tell the difference between a 1944 one and a early Bundeswehr one..?
I bet they smell the same.
There're loads of early Bundeswehr luft officers overseas caps now sitting in collections because nobody can tell the difference for example.
Same with certain boots.
I still think a lot of these items might be old,but not that old..
A lot of the postwar toques also do have stamps, added by the dealers to make them more attractive, I've seen many..
I think there're a few good ones around, but not so many that every collector now has one, c'mon.., nowadays you'll find them in every collection, while they're mighty hard to find.
They're not my field, maybe yours are fine, I only showed my concerns that nowadays everyone has one, which IMO is impossible.
I've seen many things, but in all my collecting years I don't have seen many of these, even not in the collections I've seen, except for maybe a few in one collection..
That doesn't mean a thing, except that the last 15 years a couple of 1000 popped up and are spread all over the world..,I think that is funny and it makes you wonder where they end up.

Jos.

[Bergflak]

Absolutely correct, and my point exactly! My only thrustworthy reference on these are the ones I have found inside the "system", which are all guaranteed to be original "left-overs" from the WH-depots. One in "civilian circulation" would never have survived to be passed on to a collector! And yes, telling a 1942 WH made and a 1948 Bundeswehr made one apart would probably be close to impossible. (But there has never been any BW stuff in our system, that's the nice thing about collecting here in Norway!)

[djpool]

I've been busy with other things the last few days. Had a few minutes tonight and I thought I'd check to see where the discussion is. As far as I can tell we're no closer to being identify a fake from a real toque. I really don't know if theres a 100% method. Certainly a huge number were produced during the war. I can imagine that various manufacturers were involved resulting in different construction, colors etc. The quantity of rayon mixed in most certainly increased as the war went on.
The best description I could find of a toque was in bill Costleys book on the 6SS Div. It came out in 1989 which I think was before the large influx of toques hit europe. Anyway he describes the toque:
"Measurements were 10" x 12" with a 3/4" turnback, lockstitched.(Some info on lockstitch
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...ght=lockstitch )

It was a tight stretchy stitch. Rayon predominated but the wool was of good quality, not the reprocessed material found in late war tunics and trousers."

Here are some closeups of one of mine. From the top it appears to be a double row of stitches.Underneath it is lockstitched. the thread is rayon and there are bits of rayon thread within the body itself. I'm not saying mine is real but would be interested in hearing and seeing pics of the others mentioned on this thread(in regards to stitching/materials).

WR and Happy New Year. jim

[djpool]

Bits of rayon thread in the body.

[bnz. 42]

..the one shown above with a stamped makers mark is 100% original. This is based on the pure and simple fact that the source of which I myself aquired it is "untouchable".

Thanks, Reidar, for your input. I always trusted "your source" for 100%

..I dont believe any of the ones shown are originals..
..You will know the difference straight away when you see a good one..
Cheers,Paul.

Paul, any more valuable inputs Hate when people just "kick and run"

[djpool]

Thanks, Reidar, for your input. I always trusted "your source" for 100%

Paul, any more valuable inputs Hate when people just "kick and run"

BNZ,

How is your toque stitched. Hard to tell from the pic but it doesn't appear to be a simple straight stitch. WR Jim

[paul.j]

Thanks, Reidar, for your input. I always trusted "your source" for 100%

Paul, any more valuable inputs Hate when people just "kick and run"

Hello all,
No question of kicking and running,theres no point adding anything until I can take photos of my toque-as I have no camera and my stuff is stored I dont know when that will be,rest assured it will be posted here when I can,
Paul.

[bnz. 42]

BNZ,

How is your toque stitched. Hard to tell from the pic but it doesn't appear to be a simple straight stitch. WR Jim

Yes, Jim, a single stitch.

[bnz. 42]

Inside

[djpool]

Inside

Thank you. Nice lockstitch. Maybe if others will post theres, plus a known repro, Bundeswehr etc ; we might have additional clues to help sort good from bad. Certainly worth exploring. WR Jim

[Glenn Barbaritz]

here are a few pics of my (hopefully) good one and a known fake I have. anyone want the fake for $15.00? let me know and its yours. it of course was sold to me as genuine with a return gaurentee that was not honored when it was time to return. but anyways, check out the differences starting with the size.

[Glenn Barbaritz]

close up of the weave. the fake is on the left.

[Glenn Barbaritz]

another shot of the weave

[Glenn Barbaritz]

the seams. see how the fake has the "lock" stitch style.

[Glenn Barbaritz]

and of course the reason I took a chance on this piece. how dare they put this date on such rubbish!