Research Soviet Film Studio Markings with regards to Pink Smocks

[kammo man]

In 1973 when the NYC costume shops were falling on hard times I bought 700 Civil War Union. 58 caliber cartridge boxes in mint condition for $5.00 each. At that time the retail price was about $60.00+ . I blew them out to dealers at $30.00 each and took my profit of $17,500.00 immediately (which was about a years income for me at the time). The dealers who bought them took years to sell them all at full retail. I did the same with cavalry sabers, shell jackets and canteens I found there. I made for me what was huge profits right away got my money and bought an apartment and some collectibles I could not otherwise have afforded.

If Floch bought (hypothetically) 500 smocks for say $10.00 each. The Eastern block sellers got juicy cash for something they probably would have thrown out eventually and Floch if he sold them wholesale for about 150.00 each , made a quick 70k and moved on.

If I found 100 mint Wallonien Bevo cuffbands in a thrift shop for $10.00 each tomorrow I'd probably move them for about $3500.00 each (or less) rather then take the rest of my life trying to get the $6-7K they are currently asking.

You must be Rich.

[nutmeg]

I've worked hard over the years

[kammo man]

Thats fun.

[90th Light]

Seldom have I read such nonsense to justify a crooked dealers behavior. The fakers code right there. Konkin was a believer in those very principles. He sold stuff at too good to be true prices on the e-stand. The greedy could not wait to send their money to russia to get an amazing deal. In return, they received pieces of carpet and stuffed animals. If you believe in the smock that is one thing, but we don't need to hear a boatload of justifications why Floch sold cheap (besides the obvious reason-fake).

It is a proven business strategy that works Jeff,

and it applies to a lot more successful business in the world today than just selling the selling of Militaria. Many the finest, upstanding business ever in history and sadly others not so wholesome. Comes down to how long they want to last and what their brand(s) stand for with the customer over time.

What I find interesting about Floch, is the fact that he has a good relationships with several advanced and long term collectors. Some are now good friends formed from good business over the years which is a sign of long term success in its self

For a dealer accused and charged with selling nothing but fakes, he has his champions who sing his praises and recite the numerous original items that they purchased from him. In some cases, such original items were bought in bulk over time.

The other thing I find interesting, is the number of collectors who have never bought anything off Floch ever. Yet he sold them a fake ??? .
A form of collector Folklore that gets bigger every time the story is told. The "Bigfoot" of the Militaria world, the witch-hunt, "The Mob".

I am not denying that Floch has sold fake items or defending him. However, lets not forget all the original items that he also sold over the years at much the same prices as the bad items.

At the end of the day, Floch was a wholesaler of both good and bad for sale. His motivation was to find quantities of items selling for low prices in bulk, add his margin and sell it on as quickly as he could. He was never a top of the line, top price, COA guarantee dealer.

Thus the lower, reasonable prices that he sold the Pink/ Brick smocks for does not prove either way if they are good or bad. All it proves is that he had a quantity of them and he was prepared to do a deal to move them,

Chris

P.S. Never seen anyone one defend "Konkin" here on WAF or any where else. Never seen someone who said they were Konkin friend or looked forward to catching up with him at a show, short of wanting their money back or even worse.

[kammo man]

But the Pink IS BAD.
Not German made in WW2.
NOTHInG CAN CHANGE THIS.

[RobertE]

Remember when G43 collectors had their prize 450.00 G-43 magazine pouch in the 1980's? Rare as hens teeth and the ultimate accessory - until a building full of them were found, some with markings, colors, and manufacturing anomalies never seen before.

The hoard caused the G-43 accessory collectors investment world to collapse overnight. A few things happened:

- they were proclaimed post-war fakes initially (I bought my first 20 as fakes, in all the colors and styles I ever wanted for half the price of one "original")

- collectors trying desperately to sell their pre-find pouches for the hundreds they paid for them tried to discredit the find ("eastern European surplus") to preserve the value of their investment (fail). They made sure you knew their mag pouch hadn't been found with the "suspect" hoard, hence their premium.

- some of the manufacturers and unfamiliar closure straps allowed sales as originals to stall, but eventually they were accepted as originals - and G-43 collectors rejoiced everywhere.

Today, you can buy them all day long on Ebay for 60.00 USD - some of the variants were worth 800-900.00 USD at one time.

My point: No one knows why time machine finds surface, but when they do those with the most to lose - pre-find investors with costly "inventory" - are the most reluctant to accept the find and pick at discrepancies to discredit the find. That's not really a bad thing, because many "finds" are total scams and it takes the collecting community time to sort at the imposters from the real stuff.

I think I'll bid and win on another pouch now for the price of a big fast-food meal!

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

Just like the SS cammo helmet cover find from a couple of years ago.

Accepted as original in 5 seconds.

Tons of different pattens but made correctly with the correct thread and clips.

BUT ORIGINAL.


Chris pointed out the Pinks had COMBAT repairs and nibbles taken out of them
My Christmas Decorations were stored in my basement since last year and the boxes were hit by mice eating their way through them ruining many things.
It just shows they were placed in a mice or rat basement for what could have been a year.
Whats the Combat repairs ?
EVERY jacket I have seen is unworn and if they are AGED they have been washed to whatt we call in the industry BREAKING DOWn.

More legless pondering by the wishful thinking.

[RobertE]

The brick smocks were found in a filthy state and required washing. I've never seen a combat worn example, but then there's lots I haven't seen.

s/f Robert

[nutmeg]

A big find could happen anytime. An old warehouse is opened in Poland and there are 10,000 unissued SS smocks. The prices could drop to $500.00 across the board. It would be cheaper for the reenactors to wear originals . That's why I won't pay crazy prices for this stuff .

Enough of the so called pattern 1742 and 1751 British infantry swords have come out of the UK that you can buy an original for half the price of a crappy repro of the same thing at Williamsburg. And those are 200 years old!

Just like the SS cammo helmet cover find from a couple of years ago.

Accepted as original in 5 seconds.

Tons of different pattens but made correctly with the correct thread and clips.

BUT ORIGINAL.


Chris pointed out the Pinks had COMBAT repairs and nibbles taken out of them
My Christmas Decorations were stored in my basement since last year and the boxes were hit by mice eating their way through them ruining many things.
It just shows they were placed in a mice or rat basement for what could have been a year.
Whats the Combat repairs ?
EVERY jacket I have seen is unworn and if they are AGED they have been washed to whatt we call in the industry BREAKING DOWn.

More legless pondering by the wishful thinking.

[kammo man]

When the housing bubble burst prices changed.

Lets face it.
There isn't much new blood in the hobby and its struggling.


Who is going to want this crap in 10 years?
Not many.

[kammo man]

The brick smocks were found in a filthy state and required washing. I've never seen a combat worn example, but then there's lots I haven't seen.

s/f Robert

Who is the source of the FILTHY story ?
Why do you say this?

[nutmeg]

When the housing bubble burst prices changed.

Lets face it.
There isn't much new blood in the hobby and its struggling.


Who is going to want this crap in 10 years?
Not many.

I can agree with that. The main thing IMO that keeps WW2 collecting going is films. Civil War stuff has really dropped , (great stuff still goes well), but the run of mill items are in the crapper with much dropping down 50% or more. Most the younger collectors are in their 50s and the older 70-80s. Big collections are breaking up now and there is a shortage of buyers. The new generation has little interest in history and is absorbed with video games.

I get a lot of estate calls and don't even follow up on Army , SA or Luftwaffe daggers , or common assault badges, etc .,anymore. Difficult to sell at even low prices.

[kammo man]

A big find could happen anytime. An old warehouse is opened in Poland and there are 10,000 unissued SS smocks. The prices could drop to $500.00 across the board. It would be cheaper for the reenactors to wear originals . That's why I won't pay crazy prices for this stuff .

Enough of the so called pattern 1742 and 1751 British infantry swords have come out of the UK that you can buy an original for half the price of a crappy repro of the same thing at Williamsburg. And those are 200 years old!

When the Helmet covers were found it was a good chance to find some Pink cloth covers in there are they were end of war........
But once again Nothing.

[kammo man]

I can agree with that. The main thing IMO that keeps WW2 collecting going is films. Civil War stuff has really dropped , (great stuff still goes well), but the run of mill items are in the crapper with much dropping down 50% or more. Most the younger collectors are in their 50s and the older 70-80s. Big collections are breaking up now and there is a shortage of buyers. The new generation has little interest in history and is absorbed with video games.

I get a lot of estate calls and don't even follow up on Army , SA or Luftwaffe daggers , or common assault badges, etc .,anymore. Difficult to sell at even low prices.

I know.
I am 51 and a whippersnapper compared to other collectors I know.
In Europe Reenactors are plentiful but not many want original stuff.
The repos are high standard and the Chinese crap is slowly getting better but still crap.
US made companies really lead the way in this field.

I have been and viewed massive collections in the US and Europe and NO ONE is young.
When they go.....its sells.
I have been to auctions all over and been in the storage room of the famous Auction house in Munich and its staggering the unseen inventory one sees.

Cloth is hard.

God love it but the Pink even though its fun to go back and forth on this page will
not stand the test of time.
A standard cammo print will be the example that will be held as a standard simply put.

Do you have the Mollo book from the 1970s ?
Military Fashion ?
As you are a Nineteenth century guy you know the classics are what will live on both North and South , French Imperial Guard and Highland Jocks Waterloo uniforms etc.

They command respect and walking through places like Musee de L'armee it a world class treat to see what survives.
Do you think they would have a Pink in the Normandy section over a Overprinted 5-6 ?
Lets not forget France printed German cammo and used it post war.

Anyway.
Enough of my waffle.
No hard feelings to Anyone on this thread just some rational food for thought.,

[phild]

When the Helmet covers were found it was a good chance to find some Pink cloth covers in there are they were end of war........
But once again Nothing.

It’s hard to argue that point. If the birch smocks are period then there should have been some birch helmet covers found in that cache right along with the OL HBT helmet covers and palm helmet covers that were found there.