SS officer bullion eagle Fanastic Find

[kubel44]

Eagles

Excellent rebuttal Chris and Robert you make a great argument for your case with nice evidence as examples.
It is always good to bring up all and other points in an argument.
"Maybe late for a bridge game" clever and funny!
I have a feeling that the people making the SS eagles weren't thinking that. But when an anomaly is noticed on a hand produced item you got to think just what were they thinking.
Interesting that we hypothesize the mindset of the worker. Who made an item over 70 years ago and consider it is a serious factor in determining if its real or not.

[RobertE]

It was a pure stab at levity - these could have been made by slave labor, contract labor from the east, a local embroidery enterprise, cottage or factory. I wouldn't even pretend to get inside the head of an individual insignia producer during the war; it was an example to illustrate a point. But I do appreciate you appreciating it!

Whether this example and other forms of embroidery where made for commercial profit or threat, they did not conform to one style even when using the unterlagen - and there were more than one type of template (unterlagen) produced, of course.

Wings vary in total length on some of these by 3/8 inch, heads are clearly above wing level, slightly above, or lower, swastikas and wreaths full to the point of unrecognizable, all varieties of subdued to bright to textured thread, backing materials - and don't even get started on body, head, and eyes.

These are harder to find in a pattern known to "conform" then to find something different enough to be a new variations. But there are similar features to real ones, and the ones posted are cold stone originals.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

Hello I am with Owen on this one. I heard that the expert fakes were actually made in the late 70s of real wool and real bullion wire I don't believe every negative comment I hear But, and however this comes from someone who knows a person who is known to fake SS insignia exstensively over the years. The faker said these are fakes and the only flaw is the wool that the Eagle is embroidered on is to tall dimensionally. Some people who realized this cut them down to the proper size before selling them!!

Yes indeed.
Its scary that they are now 40 odd years old now.
Introduced and cited as real by some.

Again the quality in the head and beak area are sadly lacking in the thread starter eagle that is not consistent with SS quality and production.

The WL eagles are smoke and mirrors 101.

Robert thanks for the reply.

[John Pic]

Yes indeed.
Its scary that they are now 40 odd years old now.
Introduced and cited as real by some.

Again the quality in the head and beak area are sadly lacking in the thread starter eagle that is not consistent with SS quality and production.

The WL eagles are smoke and mirrors 101.

Robert thanks for the reply.

Owen you are far from qualified to make that statement and really should present some evidence when you make statements like, " Not consistent with SS quality and production. " The SS alone did not produce these, they were made also by Belgian , French and Italian makers outside of the RZM spectrum. There are hundreds if not thousands of photos documenting this. I will post a few period photos and some strange birds worn during the war. I personally though, judging by your past posts tend to think you just like hearing yourself . Here are two Belgian made examples that are far from the "accepted" RZM standard. There are two surviving tunics know to have these one from an LAH medical officer and another from the Der Fuhrer Regiment...there is a wartime photo of Otto Weidinger wearing one on one of his tunics.

[kammo man]

John ,

Yes I know the history of SS Bullion really well so NO need to give the history lesson.

Just talk about the Fantastic find thread starter Eagle and why you believe its real.

No need for personal digs..........you took one in your first post to me and another in your last post.

o

[Felix]

I would like to stress that the initial posted eagle has all the signs of an original SS bullion sleeve eagle. Its important to point this out for those who follow this thread - please, do not get misguided.

Cheers
//Felix

[kammo man]

It has all the signs but also the best rubbish signs of post war fake.
There is ALWAYS a high standard of SS embroidery that is sadly lacking in the BEAK and head.

[RobertE]

There is ALWAYS a high standard of SS embroidery that is sadly lacking in the BEAK and head.

That is not an accurate statement, and is not supported by many examples posted on this forum. The quality of the work for insignia produced and worn during the war was generally high quality, but some were sloppier than others.

In this case, the stubby head and full beak seem to be what you are focused on, with the rest of the bird apparently acceptable. The head and beak aren't sloppy, they are just aesthetically not pleasing because they are blocky with a thick neck - big difference.

I seriously doubt you are going to change your position but like Felix, I do not want some collector to pass on a fine example of an original eagle because you have mis-identified the starter eagle as a replica.

s/f Robert

[kammo man]

It IS Robert.
The details in the head and beak are beyond SUB standard.
The eagle is sloppy.
The examples shown have ALL better sewing than the fake thread starter eagle.

[101combatvet]

The swastika is a serious mess.

It IS Robert.
The details in the head and beak are beyond SUB standard.
The eagle is sloppy.
The examples shown have ALL better sewing than the fake thread starter eagle.

[11C]

I concur with the opinions that this eagle is not original. It would not have been purchased by anyone given the opportunity to buy a proper one back in the day. This is not consistent with Third Reich quality eagles even during the late war period IMO.
I don't believe you could find any known original eagles with that lack of workmanship. I know that I haven't seen any............in fact........ there are better reproductions. I would not even put this in a "variant" category, given its lack of quality control.
It's a fake, and not even a very good one, IMO.

[90th Light]

I found the eagle on a dealers site that has been cut from the LW bullion officer eagle blanket that I have the remains of. It is for sale with Ruptured Duck, hopefully they do not mind me borrowing their images.

This shows clearly how eagles made at the same time by hand can vary a bit on some details, regardless of how carefully the hand which created them tries to make them all the same,

Chris

p.s. my 2 eagles are also shown in post number 44

[90th Light]

Reverse side of eagle on Ruptured Duck site cut from the same blanket as my eagles,

Chris

p.s. my 2 eagles are also shown in post number 44

[90th Light]

And for those who think that the original SS officer bullion eagle that started this thread is too sloopy to be accepted or not up to RZM standards, or the swaz never filled the wreath on originals. Then get think again and get stuck into the two shown in this image.

Because John Pic worked out the one fake and the original shown here, in no time at all. Tight, neat bullion and a perfectly formed swaz are not the beyond doubt footprints of picking an original made before May 1945, as some would like to think it is,

Chris

p.s. it made my day that John Pic was still participating on WAF to see the eagle that started this. I also want to thank all the others who posted, shared their experience and were not blinded by the trees hiding the wood.

[USCollect]

SS Bullion Eagle

Hi, what do you think of this one?