SS NCO tunic

[Sonderkommando]

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Geezus, before this thing gets the WAF kiss of death by people who know jack sh*t about what they're talking about, let's try and set the record straight.
The tunic itself is a 100% original SS M42 tunic, correct in every way down to the pointed pocket flaps, 5 button front, two belt hook holes, and proper liner cut (as seen on the interior picture shown). It's been through a war and shows it, and my guess is the liner was removed due to it being torn/ripped and beyond repair.
At some stage, the guy got a promotion and at that point had a dark green collar facing applied over the grey collar, tresse added, and the collar tabs moved back accordingly (look closely at the reverse shot of the rank collar tab and you'll see the original stitching there). The rank tab appears to be field made, and is different material and an odd shape and NOT artificially aged. I tend to agree that the eagle is an original, although it may have been replaced at some point based on what I can see.
Forget the shoulder boards as they could have been added at any time after the war by a collector, and if they were added, the collector could have aged them down artificially to match the tunic.....doesn't make the whole thing fake in any way, shape or form.

To me it looks like a nice example of a heavily worn original SS combat tunic....IMHO

[EiSVOGEL']

summary..

I will have to chime in again to clarify some things here.

As stated by others before, the basic jacket itself looks to be good and it was most likely worn by an NCO due to the green collar added.
The jacket however is suspicious in terms of being worn that way/in this condition without lining, in the days of war.

There is no way of knowing what happened to the jacket. Some of the repairs could have even been done by a collector, who knows.

In fact, the sleeve eagle is fake. And yes, I'm 100% sure about that. So the jacket is definitely not in "untouched" or lets say wartime condition.
Attached you can see a similar eagle and it is fake as well. Believe me, this is not the late war type, it tries to look like.
Those eagles were also available in yellow/tropical.

Based on experience, the runes look off to me. Usually you guys are unsubstantiated critical, in this case it would be appropriate.
Statements like "rank tab looks fieldmade" are worthless, who can tell for sure it was fieldmade? It is out of spec and therefore it is again highly suspicious.

The tresse still looks artificially aged to me. IMO somebody tried to make it match the condition of the jacket.

[Zauberflöte]

The more you have to explain about a item the more I prefer to run.

Nobody is debating the correctness of the impression this tunic makes; indeed all characteristics are correct to what a modified SS issued M42 tunic could look like.

My point of concern are the Tresse; if these are wrong on the boards, they are wrong at the collar as well which at least makes the tunic restored and IMO suspect.

Having had very convincing tunics in hands; salty and most of the times converted and build together with original components, recently coming from Czech origin, the only thing giving them straight away was the liner + markings. I have seen top dealers burning themselves on them. A photo alone would fool most of us. They had f.e. extra hooks, snap clousures, inner pockets, pockets from differrent materials, repairs etc etc, all those things we like to see.

With a complete absence of the liner in the subject tunic + some obvious red flags (IMO), I would give this tunic a very BIG PAUSE, based on the images provided.

If you really believe they can't fake a tunic like this (THUS NOT CLAIMING THIS TUNIC IS FAKE!), with due respect, you should be freed from your 10-year behind bubble.

I won't go in too much detail but I helped save a friend € 2000,- on a similar "one looker" Heer tunic turning up at the La Gleize show...

[Harrybr]

if im not mistaken, this very same tunic was on sale here on E stand about an Year ago and the seller said restored one

[dhunter93]

I will have to chime in again to clarify some things here.

As stated by others before, the basic jacket itself looks to be good and it was most likely worn by an NCO due to the green collar added.
The jacket however is suspicious in terms of being worn that way/in this condition without lining, in the days of war.

I agree, I think what you are looking at is a good SS tunic that was maybe a moth eaten mess or just torn up. It was fixed up by fusing other material to rebuild it. The fact that you can see re-stitching almost everywhere and the liner is missing, I think makes the case it was repaired and restored to make it presentable. I believe few tunics retain their original insignia so this is a non issue IMO, I would never pay a dime more for a tunic because I was told the insignia was originally applied, because I simply would not believe it unless it was out of the woodwork from a family that had no affiliation with collecting.

That being said, as long as you like it, that fact that you own a real SS tunic (even a rebuilt one) should be enough. Now if you paid the price for an unmolested original tunic I would send it back at once.

[skyviper91]

I appreciate everyone's time and opinions on the tunic. I did not pay what an untouched tunic goes for and I am happy with what I paid for it. It's one that will remain in the collection. Thank you again everyone!

[mrec27777]

SO, this is a FRANKENSTEIN specimen?..the missing liner is a badsign ...WHO/ WHY WOULD the liner be comepletely removed ?? EC

[ccj]

This is an interesting thread and it makes me happy I dropped WW2 items years ago. It's a minefield and W-SS is the most dangerous of all. I actually suspect most real tunics are given negative feedback from most people.

I had a real W-SS Prinz Eugene tunic and when I sold it I was worried it would be negatively criticized but sold quickly so I assume I sold too cheaply. It was well worn with stains and a tear but had it's lining. I don't Know how often linings were removed. This one has a nice look but some areas that would scare me away.

I hope to see more replies.

[Zauberflöte]

I appreciate everyone's time and opinions on the tunic. I did not pay what an untouched tunic goes for and I am happy with what I paid for it. It's one that will remain in the collection. Thank you again everyone!

You're welcome Skyviper. I hope you realize I/we are not in the game to shoot down a nice original. When it comes to asking opinions about a certain item and the opinions tend to go both ways, it is of course always preferable to choose those sounds that are favourable to your item. Especially when some individuals claim the ignorance/incompetence of the other.

I have handled my fair share of original (SS) tunics and again I have a very strong feeling the Tresse and at least collar insignia are not good. My guess is at least 95% of the badged SS tunics in the market are restored; I find it therefore shocking that -to what I assume to be- serious/advanced collectors show not a little more objective judgment which in many other cases is often given too hasty..
Salty tunics are most of the times actually worn out POW tunics or similar, restored and sold as combat time capsules.

Again, my opinion of course, use it or not and enjoy your hobby.

[Felix]

Sleeve eagle is 100% fake and I dont like the rune tab....

//Felix

[dhunter93]

My guess is at least 95% of the badged SS tunics in the market are restored; I find it therefore shocking that -to what I assume to be- serious/advanced collectors show not a little more objective judgment which in many other cases is often given too hasty..
Salty tunics are most of the times actually worn out POW tunics or similar, restored and sold as combat time capsules.

Again, my opinion of course, use it or not and enjoy your hobby.

I think you are 100% correct on your 95% re-badged statement, people seem to forget that the SS was considered a criminal organization after the war.

To your second point, I think some collectors believe in rubbish because they want to, some do it to make money, some just love "stories" = "Late war" = "private purchase" = "Heer to SS" etc. Whenever you have to explain what's wrong with an item like a dealer making a sales pitch, run away! They have been making fakes since the war ended, so if you find a non standard item, is it possible that it real? well sure almost anything is possible, but if you take the blinders of money off (either making it or saving it) fakes become a lot clearer IMO.