more photos for details 5
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more photos for details 6Comment
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more photos for details 7Comment
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last oneComment
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Below is an email that I just received from Lorenzo and he asked me to post it here entirelyOriginally posted by horsetrainer View Post
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My Friend, here some emails I exchanged with "Horsetrainer" for a trade with his helmet cover last year, how you can see the email exchange give a completely difference view by the message posted by "Horsetrainer"....
What you think my Friend?
Please cut and past it should be enough to clarify the situation.
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I asked my Friend to post in my behalf this emails I exchanged with the member "Hrosetrainer " some months ago to show the true.
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A:
Oggetto: Re: R: Waffen SS Oakleaf A Helmet Cover Type II
Dear Lorenzo,
Maybe we can trade? Do you have a plantree helmet cover that you might want to trade? The one below is on Virtual Grenadier website and here are some photos before I sent it to them.
http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=3314
Regards,
Drew
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 2:49:39 PM
Subject: R: Re: R: Waffen SS Oakleaf A Helmet Cover Type II
Hi Drew
The cover you sent me the pictures is exact what I would like to add at the collection, a mixed pattern, that I missing.
I could use for trade one of this two Plan tree helmet covers , if you like, they are light different in construction but the pattern is the same, a later plan tree 3/4.
One have the size number on the frontal side, in light blue ink and the plan tree number 4 printed in a side, the other was made more rought but is also in nice condition.
Here some pictures.
Let me know wich could be of your interest, I dont have preference.
Best Lorenzo
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 3:55:00 PM
Subject: R: Re: Waffen SS Oakleaf A Helmet Cover Type II
Hi Drew
Of course you can send the photos to your friend.
How I already wrote you before I dont want my stuffs will be posted on waf, due the total incompetence of the guys are judging this stuffs on the forum. I thougt I was enough clear on my previous emails writing why. I dont need any feedback on my stuffs and you are plenty of originals to compare, so I dont see the problem. Right?
I will appreciate your understanding thank you.
Best regards
Lorenzo
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:37:02 PM
Subject: R: Re: R: Re: Waffen SS Oakleaf A Helmet Cover Type II
Dear Drew
I understand your wish to post the pictures, you asked me to send them to your friend to get an opinion and I agree with it, this is a normal thing. Like I wrote you in the first emails I sent you, this two helmet covers are pieces will be published in my uncoming books on ss camouflage and I dont wish they will be posted on forums, for the reasons I already told you and also I wish they will stay unsein until the publication. Thank you for your offer of trade, but seing your doubts on recognize originals, and probable doubts on the experience of your friend I think is better pass on this trade for now.
Thank you for understanding, if you will need advices on ss stuffs, contact me without problem.
We stay in touch.
Best regards
LorenzoComment
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Hello Disco,
I value yours and many other peoples opinions on this forum. I am not trying to go back and forth with anyone, but when it came to dealing with Lorenzo I wanted to post photos of the helmet cover to get some honest opinions and as you can see he did not want them posted. Bottom line ARE these helmet covers original or are they fake that are posted in this thread? Yes I have Original Waffen SS Helmet Covers, but this does not make me an expert since they were made in the same factory. There were many manufacturers and each had their own style on how they were made.Comment
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The 3-4 is another fake cover 100%Comment
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Now you can see exactly why he did not want them posted.Originally posted by horsetrainer View Post
As always, no comparison with originals, no forensics, no analysis, no study, no evidences presented, not a single picture, nothing, just like that "fake" and that's it - out of the air and on the fly.Originally posted by kammo man View PostComment
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This is not my field collection area but I am italian and the " italian fake" or the "italian fake WSS cover connection"
is intersting for me; I can say that in the past Lorenzo was a well known member of this Forum and has been
banned cause I think he has made grave mistakes; but as Jesus said:
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her
I'm not the lawyer of Lorenzo and not defend him (I know him and I can see have an large collection of german
and italian militaria) personally I like to UNDERSTAND what happens and I see these emails between Lorenzo and
Horsetrainer and I think not the whole truth was written .
Strange case some people after the books of Lorenzo have start the " trumpet alert" about the italian fake factory WSS cover..
Finally yours opinion all those who have sold helmets Decal WSS Champagne were people thieves?
The decal Champagne factory not have an national identity at moment.. in future possible are the new italian cold case
Below the link of the discussion about this cover that to understand the Lorenzo opinion in this discussion and because
that covers are considered repro.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=841522Last edited by Raffaello Carola; 03-30-2016, 03:05 PM."six italians, dressed in rather unusual diving suits and equipped with materials of laughably little cost have swung the military balance of power in the Mediterranean in favour of the Axis".Comment
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because Lorenzo said they are original
now tell us why they are not
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in Italy we know some histories... since 2004 and some moderators of waf know them very well. Voices, without proofs.Originally posted by Raffaello Carola View PostThis is not my field collection area but I am italian and the " italian fake" or the "italian fake WSS cover connection"
is intersting for me; I can say that in the past Lorenzo was a well known member of this Forum and has been
banned cause I think he has made grave mistakes; but as Jesus said:
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her
I'm not the lawyer of Lorenzo and not defend him (I know him and I can see have an large collection of german
and italian militaria) personally I like to UNDERSTAND what happens and I see these emails between Lorenzo and
Horsetrainer and I think not the whole truth was written .
Strange case some people after the books of Lorenzo have start the " trumpet alert" about the italian fake factory WSS cover..
Finally yours opinion all those who have sold helmets Decal WSS Champagne were people thieves?
The decal Champagne factory not have an national identity at moment.. in future possible are the new italian cold case
Below the link of the discussion about this cover that to understand the Lorenzo opinion in this discussion and because
that covers are considered repro.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=841522
Some Italians have other proofs of very cleaver trades (fakes/originals) and here one of them who received a SS DD helmet wrote something about this in this topic.
He was fraud (i reported the story) but he did not speak about this story until TODAY. Ferdinandmax... show the helmet.
Of course he was not the only "angel" to fraud my friend who wrotes.
In any case i have no proofs but only the voices which are really very common in Italy... but VOICES. If people do not coming out... we can't say too much.
Since 2006 the voices about covers arrived to the community... but in this case seems americans have "proofs" for selling at sos / max of 2 palm covers.
This was the big bang. from this point a lot of mails circulated in pm also by moderators but nobody wrotes cause proofs are necessary.
When Owen attacked directly (i can admit he had balls to do what a lot of men did not) the snow fallen from mountain and now it's impossible to stop.
Hard work from moderators, not good from Lorenz cause he can't defend, not good for the other part which could know something but must wait "coming out" as in this thread.
I do not see an exit strategy.... and be sure this thread could continue a lot...Comment
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Lorenzo's last name
Is it Silv?
Thanks, JimComment
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Italian tailors are AMAZING craftsman . . .
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Italian tailors are AMAZING craftsman . . .
Your comment brought to mind another past member of WAF, who also happened to be Italian. Do you recall a fellow named Cesare, who used the pseudonym "Bonneville" here? He often listed a lot of high-speed SS militaria on E-Stand . . , and many years ago, I happened to be making a trip to Italy - near his neck-of-the-woods. That experience opened my eyes to whole other side of you Italians that I never expected - but in retrospect, I really should have . . .Originally posted by viva_giulio View Post
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