Aluminium Skull good or bad?

[eldenwaff]

Nice emblem - I think there is but little doubt that a haphazard attempt at cleaning was made on this at some point. Really no other way to account for all the high spots being shiny new and all the low spots having aged patina, right down to the grit between the teeth.
That is the bad news, the good is it won't affect value all that much, plus in a couple decades it will meld back into a uniform appearance.

[Disco Partisan]

Chris, thank you for your help. I still believe that only some aluminum SS buckles and insignias were finished this way (that is coated with the silver paint). In fact I think only a few of them were. In my opinion, what we usually see on the front of CupAl and aluminum SS insignias and buckles is the bare aluminum, which means to me that pretty much all insignias that exhibit the bare copper on the reverse are made of CupAl. Again, it is only my opinion for now until I see more exampes of SS insignias with the finish like on your tuxedo badge, not only your tuxedo badge and the EM buckle that you posted, which are IMO more the exception than the rule. For example, below are two of my mint aluminum buckles of the same manufacturer (OLC), just of different years. None of them was coated with the silver paint and both display just the bare aluminum. Noticably, one buckle is brighter/whiter but it is only because of different grades of aluminum used.

[ww2.collector]

It is no Paint!
It is called "Eloxieren" in germany, i dont know the english word for this (google-translator says "anodizing").
This finish is produced by electricity and some other, the collor of this Finish can be variated by some of the Parameter at the "Production way of teh Eloxierung".

I know that because of my trainetime as a mechatronics in one of the biggest company who produce spezial machinery for the pharmaindustry.
And we do it also on aluminiumparts (only Possibil with aluminium), it made the surface more resistand against scratches and oxidation.

And it is used on all, aluminiumbukles, insignas and and and in the third rich in germany

[Disco Partisan]

Eloxieren or Anodizing is an electrolytic process used to increase the thickness of the natural oxide layer on the surface of metal. In aluminum, this process builds up a transparent layer, but this layer can soak up color dyes. Anodizing increases resistance to corrosion and wear, and provides better adhesion for paint primers and glues than does bare metal.

In other words, anodized or not, it does not really matter in our subject here as Anodizing is not something that was used to "paint" the ss insignia (made of color-metal like tombac, copper, etc.) into the silver color. In aluminum Anodizing was used solely to harden it.

[SScollector]

According to the SS buckle experts, all aluminum SS buckles were originally finished this way, if I am not mistaken. Here is my SS officer buckle that has 100% of the finish according to JP. I bought it from him.
Also, in my opinion, I can see the finish on your officer's buckles that you posted as well. You really have to look close to see the finish because it did not completely change the look of the aluminum, just brightened it a bit.
Perhaps the buckle guys could help you more.

Chris

[SScollector]

Also, take a look at these two buckles from my collection. Here you can clearly see the paint. The SS buckle in the middle is the same EM that I posted earlier, with better lighting used in this photo.

Chris

[ww2.collector]

Also, take a look at these two buckles from my collection. Here you can clearly see the paint. The SS buckle in the middle is the same EM that I posted earlier, with better lighting used in this photo.

As i said it is not painted, it is "Eloxiert" (post33)
You can see it on the pictur with the EM/NCO Bukles on the left midle ss bukle verry nice.

One question: what sens it will made if you painted a silver aluminium bukle with silver paint?

IMO it make no sens!

It is "Eloxiert" because of it made the surface more resistand against scratches

The aluminium Army bukles are fieldgray painted, the Kriegsmarine are golden "eloxiert", Luft, SS and other aluminium bukles are silver "eloxiert".

If you take a look to the SS-Steel bukles they are galvanized (with zink) and ofter that they are silver painted, the galvanized looks mor gray then silver so the paint made sens


You can eloxieren Golden (goldyellow like the KM bukles), lemonyellow (like on airplainparts of the german in WW2), blue (i have no example) and silver like the bukles.
Maybe some other collors but thats out of my fields of knowing.

(by the way i collect from 2010 to 2015 only Belts and bukles)

[Disco Partisan]

basically it was a "treatment" to strengthen the aluminum
not a "cosmetic" to change the color
like with insignia made of tombac, copper, zinc, etc.

Still I am not sure if CupAl-made insignias were given this "treatment" ever at all as CupAl is a composite metal and the Anodizing affects each metal differently. for example i heard it turns the iron to the rust.

[Disco Partisan]

As i said it is not painted, it is "Eloxiert" (post33)
You can see it on the pictur with the EM/NCO Bukles on the left midle ss bukle verry nice.

One question: what sens it will made if you painted a silver aluminium bukle with silver paint?

IMO it make no sens!

It is "Eloxiert" because of it made the surface more resistand against scratches

The aluminium Army bukles are fieldgray painted, the Kriegsmarine are golden "eloxiert", Luft, SS and other aluminium bukles are silver "eloxiert".

If you take a look to the SS-Steel bukles they are galvanized (with zink) and ofter that they are silver painted, the galvanized looks mor gray then silver so the paint made sens


You can eloxieren Golden (goldyellow like the KM bukles), lemonyellow (like on airplainparts of the german in WW2), blue (i have no example) and silver like the bukles.
Maybe some other collors but thats out of my fields of knowing.

(by the way i collect from 2010 to 2015 only Belts and bukles)

Great can you please enlighten please, had they anodized ("eloxiert") CupAl isignias ? I thought it has to be submerged into an acid entirely and since CupAl is basically two different metals bonded together, it might had some unwanted effect on the copper part so it has never been done? it is just a guess or did they submerge it anyway / anodize CupAl which means put aluminum and copper under the same conditions when anodizing?

[SScollector]

You may be right about the treatment. It may very well not have been a paint at all, like we called it. However, this treatment, as you call it, (whatever it is), was absolutely used on CupAl pieces as I showed on the Zimmermann eagle and skull that I posted. It is very clear, treated the same way as the buckles, tux badge, etc.

Chris

[ww2.collector]

Great can you please enlighten please, had they anodized ("eloxiert") CupAl isignias ? I thought it has to be submerged into an acid entirely and since CupAl is basically two different metals bonded together, it might had some unwanted effect on the copper part so it has never been done? it is just a guess or did they submerge it anyway / anodize CupAl which means put aluminum and copper under the same conditions when anodizing?

With cupal i had no Experience in context to anodizing.
But i can check it.
Up to now i only hade two of the M8 Wagner Cupal SS-Visoreagles but they are silver plated.......

Maybe i have some political leader eagles in cupal, i must check it in the next days, if not i will take a look for ground dug Skull or Eagle in Cupal ground dug (Relic condition) is good because not such expensiv and i can clean it so you have parts with the line betwen naked aluminium and the anodized areas

[SScollector]

As we all know, the old Germans were notorious for making things many times more complicated than they should be. We could spend a lifetime dissecting these things and never understand exactly how or why they did these things.

Chris

[Disco Partisan]

As we all know, the old Germans were notorious for making things many times more complicated than they should be. We could spend a lifetime dissecting these things and never understand exactly how or why they did these things.

Chris

yes it seems like it Chris especially after he mentioned that CupAl insignia may also be "silver plated" : "M8 Wagner Cupal SS-Visoreagles but they are silver plated". Too complicated for sure and I only wanted to know what my insignia with the bare copper on the reverse is made of

[SScollector]

Why don't you post some pictures of your insignia here and maybe we can work on it together? I am sure that we can at least, tell whether it is CupAl or not.

Also, I forgot to mention that my officer's buckle does have a couple of spots that you can see, where the "treatment" has worn away, similar to the spots on my tux badge. Here is a picture showing what I mean.

Best,

Chris

[SScollector]

Lastly, if you want to know how confusing this can really get, I have one Zimmermann eagle that is made of three layer CupAl, (copper/aluminum/copper), that has silver plating on the front and a fifth layer of aluminum plating on the back side. Tell me this is not crazy.

Chris