Originally posted by DougE
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After a careful second look at the ring I agree with you on both points. I also think that the value is seriously impacted and most collectors would not want it. -
I would like to make the following observations if the ring has been re-engraved.
This means a perfectly original Honor Ring had the original Slb, name, date and H. Himmler signature perfectly removed. There is no remanent of prior engraving in the pictures.
Whoever was the poor unknown and unsung original holder of the ring is forever removed, the post war engraver now adds Sievers name. A big shot in the Racial Family Department. German speakers, excuse my bad spelling but it was called "Anerabe," or something like that.
After giving the ring a big shot name, instead of staying under the radar and choosing one of the accepted dates for a 40s ring, 4/20-6/21-11/9-12/21, the faker with a clean slate for his engraving tool, provides a date that will immediately raise a serious red flag. This would make no sense, if it is being sold as 100% original.
Another important fact supporting that the ring was not re-engraved is the H. Himmler signature. This signature never varies from 40s HR to HR. It is always the same. Since it is impossible to never vary a hand engraving from example to example, I conclude that the uniformity of the Himmler signature in all 40s HR's is due to the fact that the signature is based on a fixed die, and placed there by Gahr, after the S lb, the name, and the date were engraved by hand. If the Himmler signature had been buffed out, the new Himmler signature would have been hand engraved, and would vary from the signature in the posted picture. It does not. It is the same "H. Himmler" signature seen in all 40s HRs.
In order for the S lb, and the name and date to be removed, with the original Himmler signature intact, would show up on the metal as some kind of line, discoloration or something visible to the eye, ending at the end of the date. I don't believe you can buff off part of the interior ring, leaving the Himmler signature intact and not leave clear evidence in the metal between the buffed surface and the remaining original surface.
I've learned one thing about TR history; for every rule, there was always an exception.
If Sievers who I am sure saw eye to eye with Himmler, on racial theory, and family blood lines wanted a date to be the date of his Urkunde, who says this could not be done?
If I am wrong about the Himmler signature being uniform in all 40s rings, please go to the WAF archives and post such a picture.
Maybe I'm wrong.Comment
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Sievers was the head of "Ahnenerbe," correct German spelling.Comment
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Hello
I highly suggest you visit the referenced thread on German Daggers.com that Byzanti provided. It has a very good discussion on this ring/concerns. RonComment
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It would seem possible to me, given that the rings of the dead where returned to Wewelsburg, that one of the reclaimed examples was reused and presented to Sievers. This is only a conjecture, though.( Wittmann)
Why would a HR ring to such important person be re-used, and re-ingraved?
The ring looks totally redone.Comment
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Oh boy, medal-wise that site is a train wreck of dreamland prices
IanComment
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Just heard the ring is "on hold."Comment
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Ok, it´s not an original Gahr brooch - nonetheless an original Ehrenring.
In the villa of the Ahnenerbe in Berlin-Dahlem Sievers also had some higher end Allach pieces in his office - and one big DHW closet Nr. 83.Comment
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You would think - with all the problems this ring has - that $6k would be about all it's worth - if some chap is paying Witty $10k for this ring then they can kiss near half of that money goodbye - never to be seen againComment
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