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Did the Waffen SS and Totenkopf SS serve together?

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    #16
    photo

    The two fellows in front, on the right and left...they have the tunics draped over them. Maybe they are Hiwis and the Germans staged this for a laugh. Our "honorary SS men"

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      #17






















      Last edited by BlackWatch1; 11-24-2014, 03:48 PM.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Ilse View Post
        The two fellows in front, on the right and left...they have the tunics draped over them. Maybe they are Hiwis and the Germans staged this for a laugh. Our "honorary SS men"
        Hiwis? Maybe! A couple of the men look Slavic in appearance also so maybe these men were Hiwis. Thank you Ilse

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          #19
          Here is a nice re-enactment photo I found on the net
          Last edited by BlackWatch1; 11-24-2014, 04:54 PM.

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            #20
            Here is another photo I posted elsewhere on this site. I am sure this is a period photo but the man to the far left with the curly hair and sideburns looks out of place.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Ilse View Post
              The two fellows in front, on the right and left...they have the tunics draped over them. Maybe they are Hiwis and the Germans staged this for a laugh. Our "honorary SS men"
              We have a BINGO!!
              I agree, 200%!

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                #22
                I found this on the net:

                Hilfswillige aka "Hiwi" in the German Eastern Army 1941 - 1945

                In 1941 massive amounts of Russian POWs started to be taken while German forces launched Barbarossa. At the same time German casualties started to increase. There were problems with replacements, thus many German commanders started to replace their units by volunteers recruited from captured Russian soldiers. Many of them preferred to do so than to go to German POW camps. As the result some German divisions had even up to several thousands "Hiwi" soldiers. "Hiwi" served mainly in rear units such as various trains and supply columns of German divisions, but many of them - especially those who were proved reliable (were really willing to fight against the Red Army on the German side, despite being Russian) and experienced soldiers - quickly found themselves in frontline units.

                "Hiwi" were differently treated in different German units, depending mainly on commanders. Some units treated them as "sub-category" of soldiers and their payment and living conditions were worse than those of German soldiers. But many units treated them equally to German frontline soldiers.

                At the beginning German High Command didn't know anything about this practice of recruiting "Hiwi". But soon it saw the daylight and at the beginning German High Command was not very pleased with this fact, but soon it accepted it and even issued special laws for treating Russian "Hiwi" equally to all other soldiers and paying them equally also. "Hiwi" was something completely different than Russian volunteers to Waffen SS and various "Ostlegionen" of Waffen SS and cannot be confused.

                The term Hilfswillige only refers to those who served in the regular Wehrmacht as well as various German police and gendarmerie units - not Waffen SS.

                By mid 1943 around 600,000 "Hiwi" served in the Wehrmacht in total. At the same time further 200,000 served in various police units that fought against partisans in the rear area of the Eastern Front. This gives in total roughly 800,000 "Hiwi" serving in German armed forces only in this certain moment.

                In total probably well over a million Russian and other Soviet Hilfswillige served in German armed forces throughout entire war. Many of them were certainly killed or wounded as the result of combats and as such are included in the numbers from German casualty reports, in the total number of German casualties in WW2.

                In 1944 Hilfswillige even appeared in official Orders of Battles of German military units.

                For example an authorized strength of a German infantry division "model 1944" newly mobilized in 1944 was 12,801 soldiers - including as many as 1454 Hiwi.

                A "model 1945" German infantry division mobilized in 1945 numbered (if full-strength and fully consistent with OdeB) 11,211 soldiers - including 698 Hiwi.

                I guess the entire Russian Hilfswillige matter is not a very well known aspect of WW2.

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                  #23
                  I found this video on YouTube:
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixKKa9x1K98

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Ilse View Post
                    The two fellows in front, on the right and left...they have the tunics draped over them. Maybe they are Hiwis and the Germans staged this for a laugh. Our "honorary SS men"
                    That was my first thought too. The tunics and caps are not their own.

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                      #25
                      Found this on the net from Wikipedia:

                      Honorary Aryan (German: Ehrenarier) is a term from Nazi Germany. It was a status granted by the Nazi Bureau of Race Research, or by other Nazi members, to certain individuals and groups of people—who were not generally considered to be biologically part of the Aryan race—which certified them as being honorarily part of the Aryan race. The prevalent explanation as to why the status of "honorary Aryan" was bestowed by the Nazis upon other non-Nordic—or even less exclusively, non-Indo-European—peoples, is that the services of those peoples were deemed valuable to the German economy or war effort,[1] or simply for other purely political reasons.

                      While only certain Jewish individuals were granted the status, the term was ascribed to the entire Japanese people. Adolf Hitler had bestowed the title upon the Japanese following the Anti-Comintern Pact on Communism (signed in 1936), and it seemed that they were granted the status not simply for economic, military, or political reasons, but more so because of their racial integrity. In The Political Testament of Adolf Hitler, Hitler stated,

                      Pride in one's own race – and that does not imply contempt for other races – is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilization to which we belong. Indeed, I believe the more steadfast the Chinese and the Japanese remain in their pride of race, the easier I shall find it to get on with them.[5]

                      Very interesting tid bit of history I think!

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by TP Alexander View Post
                        There are increasing numbers of Malaysians, Japanese, Chinese & other members of Asian nations that are doing reenactments.
                        I have to say that the two kneeling members in the picture to the left and right of the center man look more like they should be in a Soviet Division from the Eastern part of the Soviet Union, facing the Germans, than members of a Freiwilligen SS unit. Honest.
                        Superimposing a face onto another picture is a lot easier and more authentic looking than it used to be

                        These guys are of small stature, low rank, and are no way fat and old enough to be re-enactors.

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                          #27
                          I think these are nothing more then very skinny young men with normal sized heads. The one on extreme right is wearing a Hitler Youth Proficiency badge, maybe these are members of that division. It is a little odd to see a single Totenkopf tab among all those runic tabs.

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