Pair Standartenfuehrer tabs?

[cbuehler]

All,
This pair has been offered to me, but I am not sure about them. The embroidery is very tight and well done around the edges with apparent age, but the acorns seem strangely large. There are old yellowish glue remains of an RZM tag on the back The biggest problem I have is the piping, which is two strands and differs from the norm. What say ye all?
Thanks,

CB

[cbuehler]

Close up of leaves

[cbuehler]

The piping

[istra63]

original 1st version

[C. Betz]

Tabs

Reproductions. Reverse construction, leaf construction and piping are all bad.

Charles Betz

[Stossgruppe3]

Reproductions. Reverse construction, leaf construction and piping are all bad.

Charles Betz

Yes I have to agree with Charles on this one ...
Typical reproductions I'm afraid
Regards
David

[Ian Hulley]

70's fakes as Charles and David say. Look at the twisted wire piping and the excessive fold-over material ... both classic signs of this generation of fake.

Ian

[Bob Hritz]

Not to mention totally wrong black material. It should be high quality velvet.

Bob Hritz

[istra63]

Can someone please post
an original for comparision please?

[istra63]

I have reference material circa 1971
that classifies these said tabs as original?
Certain reputable collectors state that the
wire piping as shown was used early on.
I have also seen Generals tabs with excessive
fold over on the reverse.

[Ian Hulley]

I have reference material circa 1971
that classifies these said tabs as original?
Certain reputable collectors state that the
wire piping as shown was used early on.
I have also seen Generals tabs with excessive
fold over on the reverse.

These should be on velvet as Bob say's .....

There is any number of poor 'reference' books out there ... some have the excuse of time, the more recent ones you really have to wonder.

[Stossgruppe3]

I have reference material circa 1971
that classifies these said tabs as original?
Certain reputable collectors state that the
wire piping as shown was used early on.
I have also seen Generals tabs with excessive
fold over on the reverse.

And what is this reference material ...
Can we see ... ?
Regards
David

[istra63]

Thank you Ian
In the book "Cloth Insignia of the SS"
by John R Angolia, page 42 has the said
tab from Christopher Ailsby collection.
It appears to have the wire type piping.
So if this tab is on velvet it is legit?
Considering the time (1929-1934) that
these were made is it not possible that
badge cloth or similar was used until
they settled on the use of velvet thereafter?

P.S. David the material is "Waffen SS"
by Martin Windrow copyright 1971
page 18.