Sturmbannführer tunic.

[Snni]

I'll leave it to others to debate the SS tab. Beaver/Bando book has all sorts of irregular shaped SS tabs.

It is the rank tab that gives me pause. The pips don't look like the ones I like and they sure look like the modern fake ones as depicted on this newly purchased one of mine.

The shoulder boards are a little strange looking also.

There's plenty of pre-45 SS insignia available for purchase. If you really like the tunic, get some insignia that does it justice.

John

Hmm, don't know what to make out of this..
Over a 1000 views on the thread, before a problem with the boards or rank tabs pips.....

[Daniel.S]

A simple Google search brings up 2 ss tunics from this maker and a general coat.. I cant comment on these though..

I had this tunic in hand a few days ago and it is definetly worn and there is absolutly no signs of a breasteagle ever have been applaid..

Jens

I see one on Spree militaria, that tunic was sold as stripped on estand 2-3 years ago, it had been a heer.

So we have Snni:s tunic
Spree one (which is a total restoration from heer to SS)
And a couple of heer ones.

As for the breasteagle it says me nothing as it is gabardine, breasteagle marks on those are easy to remove which makes them perfect tunics to restore as SS. (as long the original eagle was not sewn throught lining but they usually arent)

I did not write to arguee with you guys, i just wanted to let Snii know (if he payed for it as an SS tunic) that it might be a heer one.

As he now wrote that he got it very cheap i have no further comments.

Daniel.

[Jens Thune]

Not arguing, just sharing information, opinions and observations..
I am open to the fact that this might have been a heer tunic, i have had a few tunics in this italian fabric but Never atempted a restoration on one so i cant speak of how the fabric reacts..

I found it mentoned on the net that willi Schumacher should have a opencollar ss tunic in his collection from this maker.. No pictures though

[John Pic]

LOL what a gab fest about nothing...its a decent rep of an SS tunic...possibly made up yes....all original materials yes.

[sgstandard]

Tunic

If someone posts an item for opinions, they deserve at least a concerted effort to have their item evaluated thoroughly. But when members actually take the time to try to evaluate, someone says it's a big deal about nothing. But to the owner of the item who shelled out his hard-earned money, it IS a big deal. That's why the owner so diligently provided us with such detailed dimensions. If the tabs are KNOWN to be applied post-war, if it was MY tunic, I'd take both tabs off and post closeups of the BACK SIDE of the tabs on this Forum, and that's the only way you'll know for sure. It's a small amount of work to have "SS-peace-of-mind", a sometimes elusive mind-state. You have GOT to see the back of tabs sometimes to ascertain originality. It's certainly not hard to reapply them. Trust me - ANYONE can manufacture a rank tab. (PM me if you need one made). And no one has yet explained how the runes are different shapes and widths (by over 1 mm) if they're sewn over a cardboard template that's exact. Despite my reservations on that rune tab, I still think it may have a better chance of being good than the rank tab, which looks like it was made yesterday.

[sgstandard]

Tunic

PS: "all original materials" ???? If someone posted a blank black wool parallelogram on this Forum, there's no way in hell that it would even get a response as to originality without seeing the buckrum on the reverse side. It's up to the owner to decide if his peace of mind is worth the effort, but there's no other down side to temporarily removing them if they're known to be post-war applied anyway.

[Lassi]

LOL what a gab fest about nothing...its a decent rep of an SS tunic...possibly made up yes....all original materials yes.

Cheers
Lars

[sgstandard]

Tunic

If it's a "gab-fest about nothing", then why are you still gabbing? No offense, but at least explain WHY it's a gab-fest, and address the questions posed. I don't know how it's possible to determine originality of ANY SS rank tab without seeing the reverse. Please elaborate on how you can do this.

[Felix]

Rune tab is not original. Photos shows that.

//Felix

[Snni]

If I where to make a fake rune tab, the first thing I would make right was that the runes was same size and shape, as the most commen "accepted original". Not harder to make the runes same size.
If the runes where the same size on the tab, no one would have a problem with the tab on my tunic? The other materials are accepted?

From what you say, a rune tab like the shown, can impossible be original, because the runes are not 100% the same. That is the only reason, right?

Seems strange to me, that all period tabs made pre 45 are 100% perfect.. But what do I know..... Im trying to learn here..

At some time I might try to remove the tabs and see the reverse side.

Thanks!

[sgstandard]

Tunic

I brought up the various issues about the tabs to spur debate. I'm not saying the Rune tab is bad - just pointing out things that are of concern. The runes aren't expected to be perfectly identical, but they should be pretty close, because the cardboard template they're sewn over ARE identical. That automatically begs the question, why AREN'T they more similar? If I had to bet, I'd say the Rune tab is possible to be real more than the rank tab, which just doesn't look right to me. Having SAID that, the rank tab could possibly be real also. Anyone with a devious mind could make a rank tab like that in a couple of hours with just a few materials . Considering the price and scarcity of many SS items, you really have to be thorough and cautious. The reverse side of collar tabs is just as important to establish authenticity, as the front in many cases. If you DO decide to remove them for proper analysis, you've got nothing to lose except for the time it takes to reattach them, especially considering they're post-war applied anyway. The real pros on the SS Forum could probably tell right away if the buckrum on the back looks kosher. This isn't about me being right - it's about finding out the truth so you can sleep soundly at night . No one wants an SS tunic with fake tab or tabs

[Felix]

If I where to make a fake rune tab, the first thing I would make right was that the runes was same size and shape, as the most commen "accepted original". Not harder to make the runes same size.
If the runes where the same size on the tab, no one would have a problem with the tab on my tunic?
I would still have a problem with the rune tab. The size is not the deciding factor alone.

From what you say, a rune tab like the shown, can impossible be original, because the runes are not 100% the same. That is the only reason, right?
Again, its not the final nail in the coffin that the runes are not the same. Its a problem among others.

Seems strange to me, that all period tabs made pre 45 are 100% perfect.. But what do I know..... Im trying to learn here..
Like you wrote, not all pre may 1945 look perfect. But types and variances are known. No one single officer rune tab that is a verified original looks like the one on your jacket, that I know of. But on the other hand it is close or similar to known fake tabs.

Perhaps I should have been more clear from the start, that IMO the rune tab is a fake.

At some time I might try to remove the tabs and see the reverse side.

Thanks!

//Felix

[sgstandard]

Tabs

And if Felix is correct about the Rune tab, that automatically casts more suspicion on the Rank tab as well. Felix is one of the guys I trust with SS items, but that in no way disparages the others who posted, even those that may disagree with my assessments, such as John Pic, who is very knowledgable and experienced.

[John Pic]

And if Felix is correct about the Rune tab, that automatically casts more suspicion on the Rank tab as well. Felix is one of the guys I trust with SS items, but that in no way disparages the others who posted, even those that may disagree with my assessments, such as John Pic, who is very knowledgable and experienced.

I disagree with Felix respectfully , knowing he could be right because he is very knowledgable and I too respect his opinions. However, I think tabs are not always specific in shape and runic perfection.

also I do not take your opinion to be disparaging, its good to weigh everything in.

[sgstandard]

Tabs

I believe that if the experts on this forum could get a peek at the backs of the tabs, there would be a consensus of whether they're original or not. I wouldn't suggest such a thing if we didn't already know they were post-war applied. That's up to the owner, who I have to commend for being open to all opinions without getting defensive like so many who post an item for evaluation, then get mad if you don't like it. Regardless of who's right, I'd sure be interested to find out what the backs look like. I hope I'm wrong, because then he's all set. If I'm right, and he thinks the tunic is worth investing in new insignia, he can go that route.