Announcement

**muzrub** · 01-09-2014, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Rick C View Post

More to the point, it’s a pathetic attempt to keep the evil nazi mythos alive and well as long as even one of these poor SOBs can be still found alive to prosecute.
...You have to love the tendency of the ‘victors’ exact revenge in their re-writing of history...

"pathetic attempt to keep the evil nazi mythos alive"

Revisionist much?

**muzrub** · 01-09-2014, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Fritz View Post

I wonder what sort of glasses you are wearing.

Cheers

Your point being???

**JC ESQ.** · 01-09-2014, 07:44 AM

For those who making the point about saying no and refusing the order it's worth reading Ordinary Men by Cristopher Browning, it looks at the factors as to why & how these "ordinary men" ended up systematically murdering thousands of innocent civilians.

The human being is very much pre-conditioned to be obediant to authority, as we saw with Milgram's experient. This is then exascerbated when the person is in a group, especially a military based one with all of the macho-ness that goes with it, as to go against their comrades and leave them to do the awful task is seen at that second as a form of cowardice.

It's also worth noting Gustave Le Bon's study of crowd psychology noting that in a group people feel a form of anonymity and tend to lose their individual morals and responsibilities, which is obvious every time there is a riot in our fantastic modern western societies.

The point is that it's one thing to say what you would do but it's very different being in the situation as shown in the milgram experient the polled group believed that only 3% of participants would carry on administering pain after the "victim" failed to respond, in reality 65% did.

A very interesting subject.

**JC ESQ.** · 01-09-2014, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Robert H View Post

For all the very smart people who know everything so well, just read this book to learn also about psychologie and peer pressure.
Also think 70 years back and the way of life and daily life. Its quite different then in 2014.
Read how many will say NO, a handfull from hundreds.

Such matters are not in the human nature, forget it. No human nature will get used to it either.

Beat me to it!

**chrischa** · 01-09-2014, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by muzrub View Post

Your point being???

I think your're coming accross as the man is guilty unless proved innocent and perhaps you are taking a moral stand against war crimes and dismissing those trying to be balanced?

And anyway, I thought you were excluding yourself from this thread!?

**Rick C** · 01-09-2014, 08:01 AM

The bottom line is this - if folks are going to get on some high horse of moral outrage over what happened 70 years ago in a global war to the degree that they are willing to hunt down Octogenarians, then we should see these same folks clamoring for the arrest, extradition and execution of American leaders (Bush, et al) for establishing pre-emptive war as US policy (violation of Kellogg-Briand Pact), Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace (violation of Nuremberg), not to mention ‘torture’ in violation of 18USC, Chapter 113C as well as the aforementioned drone operators. While we’re at it let’s extradite, arrest execute the Israeli leadership, commanders and private soldiers for authorizing the deployment of white phosphorous against civilians, the targeting of civilian populations in Gaza and elsewhere (violation of Hague Convention), illegal annexation of territories (violation of Geneva Conventions), etc., etc.

Until we advocate and, indeed act upon the crimes against humanity above as well as a plethora of others unmentioned therein, discussions relating to German soldiers facing such charges are utter BS due to the complete double standard applied. The only difference between the Germans and ‘other’ war criminals (then and now) is that they had better tailors and they wore different color snappy uniforms.

**muzrub** · 01-09-2014, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by chrischa View Post

I think your're coming accross as the man is guilty unless proved innocent and perhaps you are taking a moral stand against war crimes and dismissing those trying to be balanced?

And anyway, I thought you were excluding yourself from this thread!?

I did say: "If found guilty--- lock him away, even though he deserves worse." (than only being locked away)

Which I stand by. If found guilty they should throw the book at the guy.
I don't see to many balanced views in this thread at all--- mine included, I have a strong dislike for barbarity and I don't buy into the excuses used by some revisionists and SS fanboys --- on that I'm guilty as charged

And you're right, I was suppose to exclude myself from this thread (I did have my fingers crossed). However, I couldn't. But don't fear, I'll always be civil

Cheers,

Jamie

**Fritz** · 01-09-2014, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by muzrub View Post

Your point being???

That's exactly what I was wondering when I went through your numerous posts.

Cheers

**Fritz** · 01-09-2014, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by muzrub View Post

I have a strong dislike for barbarity and I don't buy into the excuses used by some revisionists and SS fanboys --- on that I'm guilty as charged

So everything that doesn't fit your point of view is an "excuse". Ergo: Those who don't agree with you on parts of your well-informed posts are either "revisionists" or "SS fanboys".

Guilty as charged? Ok.

Cheers

**muzrub** · 01-09-2014, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Fritz View Post

That's exactly what I was wondering when I went through your numerous posts.

Cheers

Jeez, I thought I made my points of view very clearly.

I'll break it down...

I don't believe time should be an excuse not to prosecute.
If found guilty of participating in the murder of children (possibly burning them alive), throw the book at him.
I don't believe the "I was only following orders," Nuremberg excuse and nor do I care for revisionist history and apologists.

I do understand what others have written about "peer pressure" (and I'm familiar with the studies), however I believe that in the end a person is responsible for their actions and as such should accept whatever comes their way.

Cheers,

Jamie

**Gary Wood** · 01-09-2014, 08:44 AM

Enough!

Thread closed

Announcement

Das Reich member on trial

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread