fake SS-TOTENKOPF OFFICER'S tab on E-stand?

[RKC]

Okay I'm on....

As I said earlier, I had Glenn pull the entire offering to shut down all the b.s. opinions which have shown up. I didn't expect any but, we see it on every forum section on here -

Octavian:

Is that an off wool backing on the Totenkopf Tag? Not the exact quality i normally see. Doesn't look like Moleskin or Velvet.

Where is the 'intelligent' appraisal or view? You're asking a question. Then stating you haven't come across this style yourself.

Show me in J.R. Angolia's book where it says 'Only velvet shall be used for officer insignia'.
Also, where does he state 'there are only a couple of patterns used on SS insignia'.

Let me offer to help you with J.R. Angolia's statements....

Refer to page # 282 [top of the page] - "Officer pattern up to SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer -
Aluminum hand-embroidered runes on black wool backing with twist aluminum cord piping." He also states in this same book that - "Above the rank 'SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer' the insignia backing material was 'black velvet'.

So, whether it be the 'rune' tab or the 'skull' tab, they were manufactured with black wool with aluminum wire piping for officer ranks up to 'SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer' & beyond that rank it would be black velvet.

May I also refer you to page # 302 [top of the page] - Illustration is of the 'SS-Totenkopf Officer collar tab & it is stated - "Hand embroidered aluminum thread on black wool.
Specimen at left is for the officer".

So, I guess Jack's "knowledge" shows you really don't know much! And as far as 'pattern' goes, let me direct you to pages # 303, # 304, # 305 - There's more than a "few" different patterns of the collar tab shown that were manufactured & worn on the uniform.


Felix:

Well, I read through the entire posting & I still haven't read an 'intelligent' review of that collar tab. Again, as I stated before, typing a one-line statement doesn't do anything when it shows-up as - "I don't like it!" or "Not for me!" If you don't know why you don't like it then why bother taking the time to type that in the first place? Explain your view to the poster so he understands your reason & give him a 'comparison' to view!

It just seems that there are more than a few "Ohp, Ohp, Ohp, Chief, Chief, Chief, Look at that, Look at that, Look at that!" type on here who follow another around & act as their 'yes-men' & have to agree with every posting that one guy posts & not one ever offers an actual intelligent view of the item being shown.


Now, am I just 'sounding-off' because I'm mad at you guys?

No! If you look at my avatar section I've been a member here for 5-years & I've seen this going on pretty well every time I log-in & look through the postings of guys asking if their item might be original or not. Yeah, I've only got 206 postings in 5-years....That doesn't say I'm not a 'member of the team'. I give an honest 'explanation' of the view of the item if I see there were no members who 'actually' knows the pieces in question.

If Thomas Durante isn't busy & gives his opinion of the persons item there is NO point in me getting in there & expressing mine. What for? Thomas had it 'covered' with an intelligent response so why jump into the thread? I'm not looking to increase 'posting points'!

Enough said!

Ron.

[Ian Hulley]

Well, I read through the entire posting & I still haven't read an 'intelligent' review of that collar tab. Again, as I stated before, typing a one-line statement doesn't do anything when it shows-up as - "I don't like it!" or "Not for me!" If you don't know why you don't like it then why bother taking the time to type that in the first place? Explain your view to the poster

Ron you have had intelligent reviews, pretty much as good as you will get on here (or pretty much anywhere else to be fair) I could point out several features about yours which you would then pick apart showing or quoting any number of similar or downright bad examples in 'reference' books but I won't because your attitude sucks.

Cheers, Ian.

[Felix]

Ron, what to say that would make you feel comfortable that your TK tab is a total fake? Why do I even bother with this issue when it is all clear and your tab is a fake? I tell you, I have better choices to spend my time, and not wasting my time explaining. No insult intended what so ever. Please believe me. I am glad to help. Have you even considered why a lot of collectors here take their time to give free help and advice? Yes we love our hobby and are happy to help, be we are not feel free advice idiots that you can treat like you want. Together, some of the names giving comments have so much study hours and experience that you would be shocked! And after you would very greatful to recieve their advice. That is how you should treat this issue. Been there, done that!

If Peter M and Ian H says it is bad it counts in a heavy way. Others weigh in as well.

Ask yourself please: Have you ever seen an original TK tab with this quality that is a sure original? With the same backing material? Same buckram? Your reference to books means nothing. Believe me. Burden of prof is on your side.

I will tell you honestly, and you might doubt my word, this TK tab is a low quailty fake. So far away from an original as one could ever tell. Pure ebay trash! Pattern and quality is fake and so is the fuzzy wool black cloth and the buckram. All fake.

If you think I am an idiot playing smart, please spend an hour searching for my discussions here in the SS forum. When you have done that, please tell me what you think. I can handle it.

Your tab is 100 % fake, no doubt. I am sorry, honestly. Peace man and no offence.

//Felix

Gary, can you please post the other insignias that this person had for sale?

[RKC]

You've got it Ian!

And even your posting fits right-in with what I've said! The 'tab' was there, the posting was questioning the construction & overall layout of the tab & what do we have? Another one entering into the thread & saying "nothing" constructive to point out to everyone 'what makes the tab a reproduction'. Gee, I wonder why my 'attitude' sucks?

Ron.

[Gary Wood]

Gary, can you please post the other insignias that this person had for sale?

Here are the eagles

[Gary Wood]

Eagle 2

[John Pic]

Hmmm how did you come across these if I may ask ? The Eagles are correct in style but appear to be constructed in a fashion unlike originals more than likely no template underneath the bullion and done using a computer generated patern. I defer to Felix who has earned his credibility in SS insignias through long hard study of original pieces...Felix what your opinion of these?

[RKC]

Just to make my point....

Here's the 'detailed descriptions' of the 'Single-handed Tank Destruction' Strip that is found in
the thread 'George Karck' just listed under this in the same section.

This 'TD' strip was part of the uniform in question & here are the "remarks pertaining to it's originality"....

Eric Mill:
TDB not okay. For sure a wrong (fake) panzer and i would guess when more detail would be shown the stripe on which the panzer is attached is also not okay....

jacquesf:
Agree on the TDB and the rest of the a SS esments. Looks like the maker is AF Ucker & AF Aker. J

RKC:
To be more precise on your 'Single-handed Tank Destruction' Strip....

It's not an original based on the fact that - an original design in the "tank" has 8 track cleats showing between the 'return wheels' # 1 & #2 as-well-as, 8 track cleats showing between the #2 & #3 'return wheel' which are situated above the 8 road wheels shown along the bottom of the tank.

Yours shows 8 (kind of buggered-up cleats) between the #1 'return wheel' & 10 track cleats crammed into the space between the #2 & #3 'return wheel'. Definitely not the sign of an "original"!

A big difference in the response for the person posting!

Ron.

[John Pic]

Also those eagles appear to be one and the same as these posted by Spencer which shows the artificial aging used to make one look "old" yet no oxidixing of the bullion.http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=684126

[John Pic]

This is a different thread and we are discussing an item its has turned into a debate on how people post. Unfortunately SS cloth requires a lot of hands on work unlike badges. Thomas Durante is a champion when it comes to badges, there is no equal the go to guy in that area. But this is cloth and it is very tricky since the evolution of the fakes is near perfect replicas.

[octavian]

That's what i said. AN OFF WOOL. Man....

[RKC]

John:

Too bad your 'conjecture' is wrong regarding the construction of the eagles. There are 'cardboard unterlagen' under the wirework....kind of like the color of the 'tan' used on the
Afrikakorps pith helmets.

Yes! They are the "same" eagles that Spencer posted. I "scanned" them with my 'HP' scanner
& that is why they came out so bright. They were originally on the E-Stand in "photo" form but I didn't take 'reverse' photos of them when I had the camera going.

As far as 'where these pieces came from'....Mid 90's I bought & traded for the SS pieces.
The 'GFM' collar tabs I traded for back around 1979-1980 & they were seen & 'okayed' by more than a couple of dealers.

Same for the 'Generalgouvernement' Officer's cuff title. Very reputable dealers & very knowledgeable dealers inspected this title more than once over the years & stated it was an original that was extremely rare & almost unknown about.

Ron.

[codytrcollector]

We have explained, including myself, why your tab is fake. My post alone gave enough information. The burden is not on us, it's on you to prove its a original. So please, tell me why it is and please, post some accepted original tabs with the same material, construction of the scull and backing.
Your reaction is nothing short of that of a two year old. You keep fighting the facts, hoping someone will come along and agree with you. Sorry, that's not going to happen. Instead of all the b*tching, maybe you should say thank you guys for the free information you've spent hours and hours learning and then move on. I can't believe the lack of manners shown here, who raised you?

[Eddie]

Ron,didn't mean to upset you,i was mainly concerned that you probably spent allot of money on those items,i have the same opinion few guys already mentioned here,GFM collar tabs are very obvious reproductions,to many things to mention,they are just much lesser quality all around when comparing with originals,you should post it in Heer Uniforms for opinions anyway and ask members to post what they believe is original,about one of the SS eagles you mention that is private purchase,something like this is not accepted as original unless documented.

[John Pic]

Is the unterlagen cardboard or is it tan threads ? Im sorry I cannot agree that they are 100% original there are many styles but these two are not like any I have seen on uniforms...or for that matter in Angolias Cloth book which you use as a reference for your skull tab. The one in post 20 is close but the legs were embroidered wrong compaired to a real one.