fake cap on Collector's Guild website

[TonyS]

all average SS collectors have a warning if see a panzer cap with white numbers... 10 warining if there is more than a number.

tk is very easy to spot, eagle could fool.

I'm sort of surprised this one got through, however Peter has other people working with him so one of them might have inspected this cap.

The eagle's Swastika and wreath are the give away points but a number of SS repros have now gotten pretty close to the real thing.

It sucks to always have to inspect this stuff with a magnifying glass

[RoyA]

The Collector's Guild is top notch!!
the item will disappear immediately, we all know this for sure!

PW is exceptional at taking care of his clientele...
all that is needed is that it is pointed out..

Ditto that.
Peter's integrity is beyond reproach.

[OnnoP]

...well I have started this thread AFTER emailing mr Whammond about this cap, showing him the links to the repro insignia as listed on Babcock's and the Marshals Baton website and advising him to remove it and not ruïn his good reputation...cap is still there, email has not been replied so far...but maybe he doesn't like strangers questioning his expertise...but seeing he does have a good reputation...I'm sure that should at least give him some time to correct a mistake...although as the world's nr. 1 fan of these TK cap insignia...they're not THAT good, just very nice repros...and that's a good one to me: one that has the look, the feel, but enough tiny giveaways not to ruïn the better part of this hobby...

[jacquesf]

I guess mistakes happen. i bought an m41 with period applied Demjansk shield from Collectors Guild, years ago. When I sold the jacket a month ago, turned out the shield is a fake. I should have done my home work better at the time. Moral of the story, never accepts anything from anyone on face value in this hobby. J

[OnnoP]

Just thought I'd post two links showing the insignia these repro ones are based on. The eagle can be seen on this cap:

http://oakleafmilitaria.com/1210h1.html

It's the makeup of the body that give the fake away: diamond shapes instead of sawtooth shapes, otherwise the overall look and shape are very close.

And the skull is of course based on the larger sized fez skull:

http://gothicline.files.wordpress.co...itaria-057.jpg

BUT...the description clearly emphazises the skull as being this slightly larger variant...and I think we can all agree that the repro, although a nice one as such, does not look original at first glance. Weigh that against the way it's explicitly mentioned in the description, with the possibility of post-war application explicitly mentioned along with it and IMHO this listing can be regarded as very odd indeed.

I for one would never purchase a cap that, without provenance, is after all just black wool, cotton lining, threads holding it all together and some ink added, if it's decked out with repro insignia.

I visit the Guild's website pretty much on a daily basis, as I regard it one of the best research sources online, and I think it serves that purpose for many on this forum. But a cap like this one also somewhat degrades the validity of the website as a research source IMHO.

[TonyS]

...well I have started this thread AFTER emailing mr Whammond about this cap, showing him the links to the repro insignia as listed on Babcock's and the Marshals Baton website and advising him to remove it and not ruïn his good reputation...cap is still there, email has not been replied so far...but maybe he doesn't like strangers questioning his expertise...but seeing he does have a good reputation...I'm sure that should at least give him some time to correct a mistake...although as the world's nr. 1 fan of these TK cap insignia...they're not THAT good, just very nice repros...and that's a good one to me: one that has the look, the feel, but enough tiny giveaways not to ruïn the better part of this hobby...

Give him some time. Peter will see this thread and remove the cap.

But unless you're a regular customer I doubt he'll just take your word for it without checking first.

If you're collecting reproduction stuff aren't you on the wrong website???

[viva_giulio]

Just thought I'd post two links showing the insignia these repro ones are based on. The eagle can be seen on this cap:

http://oakleafmilitaria.com/1210h1.html

It's the makeup of the body that give the fake away: diamond shapes instead of sawtooth shapes, otherwise the overall look and shape are very close.

And the skull is of course based on the larger sized fez skull:

http://gothicline.files.wordpress.co...itaria-057.jpg

BUT...the description clearly emphazises the skull as being this slightly larger variant...and I think we can all agree that the repro, although a nice one as such, does not look original at first glance. Weigh that against the way it's explicitly mentioned in the description, with the possibility of post-war application explicitly mentioned along with it and IMHO this listing can be regarded as very odd indeed.

I for one would never purchase a cap that, without provenance, is after all just black wool, cotton lining, threads holding it all together and some ink added, if it's decked out with repro insignia.

I visit the Guild's website pretty much on a daily basis, as I regard it one of the best research sources online, and I think it serves that purpose for many on this forum. But a cap like this one also somewhat degrades the validity of the website as a research source IMHO.

Eagle is different, not the same version.

[OnnoP]

Mr. Whammond just emailed me and, as suggested in this thread, thanked me and assured the cap would be removed. So that's the end of this thread.

"If you're collecting reproduction stuff aren't you on the wrong website???"

Well forgive me for trying to prevent anyone from investing hard earned $ in a piece of cr*p (from a collector's perspective I guess that's what it's regarded as): I can appreciate a good reproduction because there are many people who appreciate the aesthetic aspects of SS related militaria that can also be found in a good repro. I invest a lot into this, but the same $ will buy me some original HJ/SA/Political items and that would be it. And I've owned those and enjoyed them. Now I own some items that come very close to items that even as original would be very rare and costly to acquire, even for an advanced collector. And I proudly own them. Maybe I am on the wrong forum indeed...

[pete]

.

Don't leave mate, no reason to, stick around.


Pete

[Kale Michael]

Agree

I agree with Pete , please continue here Onno. Thanks for the heads up and starting this thread.
Kale

[TonyS]

Mr. Whammond just emailed me and, as suggested in this thread, thanked me and assured the cap would be removed. So that's the end of this thread.

"If you're collecting reproduction stuff aren't you on the wrong website???"

Well forgive me for trying to prevent anyone from investing hard earned $ in a piece of cr*p (from a collector's perspective I guess that's what it's regarded as): I can appreciate a good reproduction because there are many people who appreciate the aesthetic aspects of SS related militaria that can also be found in a good repro. I invest a lot into this, but the same $ will buy me some original HJ/SA/Political items and that would be it. And I've owned those and enjoyed them. Now I own some items that come very close to items that even as original would be very rare and costly to acquire, even for an advanced collector. And I proudly own them. Maybe I am on the wrong forum indeed...

Well excuse me for asking a simple question. I don't believe I criticized you for alerting members to a fake cap, did I??

If you get that butthurt over one small question on this forum, I suggest you read a few of the really big argument threads on here to open your eyes a little. It can be a rough place at times......

This one is a big favorite:

http://wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/s...00+panzer+wrap

and this one

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=3728986

Anyway no offense was intended - but you certainly took it that way.

[J. Wraith]

Guy has a solid reputation and given the range of items he deals with I would say he is pretty good in staying clean. Best thing and if your sure the item is bad is to mail the dealer before hand. Most often they welcome the information and move to remove the item. Some guys get pissy and tell you to go screw, then you can make a stink and crap on them. Its all a matter of attitude.

[beufighter]

well done to the thread starter for bringing this up as threads like these definatly help dealers as well as collectors

[Fred Fokkelman]

All I can comment: buy the item not the dealer. We all make mistakes...

[90th Light]

In my early days I too was blinded by "The Collectors Guild". I learnt the hard way to double check if the item was original or not before I paid my money, especially given all the extra charges that are attached by this seller. I still have the fake pair of tropical shoulder boards to remind me of this fact.

Just recently, my friend returned a cap which had turned out to be fake. The funny thing is that he nearly took a badge in part exchange for the returned cap before he found out that it too was a fake.

The point is for anyone reading this, do your own homework. The European dealers get belittled on this forum for any fake items that they might be listing The reality, North Amerian dealers also have their fair share of bad ones.

Caveat emptor,

Chris