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    #196
    I agree with Bob Hritz, these rings have been talked up over the years and are priced out of all proportion to their relative rarity to other SS awards.
    At auction in 1968 I bought a nice early HR for £30 GBP. At the same auction an SS-Ehrendegen made £80 GBP, and good SS-M33 service daggers made around £12 GBP each. A cursory survey of the 1938 DAL shows many more holders of the HR than the degen. Jmo.

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      #197
      Barry
      Those prices are pretty close to a weeks wages back then in the UK in fact they'd be considered real good in some parts.

      Eric

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        #198
        Originally posted by Hoss View Post
        Barry
        Those prices are pretty close to a weeks wages back then in the UK in fact they'd be considered real good in some parts.

        Eric
        Thats very true, Eric. Collecting cost for me, like for most collectors, has always been a sacrifice, except for very occasional lucky buys. But the point I wanted to make is the disparity that has happened between the perceived value of an HR and say, an SS- Ehrendegen. I sold my 1968 £30 GBP ring to a dealer at the 2000 Max show for $2500 USD, and checking my dealers' list archive find that retail prices in year 2000 for a good SS-Ehrendegen averaged $3500 USD.
        At the peak of the recent HR frenzy the rings at five figure prices had outstripped the rarer and more desireable, imo, Ehrendegens. The rings have fallen back in price now, but I think a good SS-Ehrendegen at current prices is still a worthwhile buy. Jmo.
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          #199
          HRs are not really so rare is right. A good condition black enamel SS runic ring is way rarer!
          It is strange so many HRs survived though.. They are small and easy to lose, also made from silver and in postwar Germany I bet more than a few were sold as scrap for survivors just to get food/clothes!

          Whats rare are the real early examples [in good cond.],,and/or HRs to a 'famous' personality, or even a good combat man..
          To me a mint late pattern ring to a paper pusher to me should only be a few thousand..

          You can wear them, easy to keep and display,historical, and just look so dam cool.!

          The HR got inflated some years ago when a author or 2 write there are only 20 or so in collections thru out the world. Start with the 'mystical' bit, a few over inflated sales and there you go.....
          Then the glut came, they were everywhere. Printed Mis-information about them, really good fakes and now unless you have a famous personalties ring you can forget the 5 digits! IF you bought one for an investment at that time I can say you will be lucky to get your 'investment' back...

          Comment

            #200
            Gaspare
            Excellent analysis. Thanks, Ron

            Comment

              #201
              Originally posted by Michael Fay View Post
              [FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode][SIZE=2]

              sometimes I try to shake off the names and titles of specific groups of humans, and simply look at human nature.
              Human nature shows a great capacity to attempt to manipulate its' environment to its' advantage.
              When I do this, I see motives rather clearly.

              Could not agree more, there are far too many Real Estate Agents and Used Car Salesmen types in the hobby these days.....

              Comment

                #202
                Originally posted by Gaspare View Post
                To me a mint late pattern ring to a paper pusher to me should only be a few thousand..
                That's where they are today, aren't they ? Do you mean a few hundred or a couple thousand ?

                Originally posted by Gaspare View Post
                The HR got inflated some years ago when a author or 2 write there are only 20 or so in collections thru out the world. Start with the 'mystical' bit, a few over inflated sales and there you go.....
                Promotion through a book, compared to a forum, bears the chance to make a buck or 2 on its sale. Or the risk to loose some.

                Throwing in some unsubstantiated 'facts', which may be sponged up by the unsuspecting (gullible ?) collector. Wow, I hadn't thought of that.

                And from what's been posted further up, the inflated sales are a fact (maybe the very first one(s) to initiate the frenzy weren't even real ?).

                Comment

                  #203
                  Originally posted by der-hase-fee View Post
                  That's where they are today, aren't they ? Do you mean a few hundred or a couple thousand ?



                  Promotion through a book, compared to a forum, bears the chance to make a buck or 2 on its sale. Or the risk to loose some.

                  Throwing in some unsubstantiated 'facts', which may be sponged up by the unsuspecting (gullible ?) collector. Wow, I hadn't thought of that.

                  And from what's been posted further up, the inflated sales are a fact (maybe the very first one(s) to initiate the frenzy weren't even real ?).
                  I really don't know about the rings....I got one 40 years ago and it is very good and I like it.The idea of writing books and putting in fakes and saying they are orig. has been going on for over 50 years or longer.

                  Dennis J

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                    #204
                    hey if you can get a minty late pattern ring to a PP for $3 / $4K that's great!!

                    A Roman numeral ring, ,a mint early pattern, ,a reissue and late pattern to a infamous personality, a General, a man with a good combat record,,those will always be good rings especially in good condition..

                    I'm sure there are a few paper pushers you'd want but they'd fall under 'infamous' personalitys!

                    Comment

                      #205
                      Very much difference in price/value between Heinrich Himmler's HR and anonymous Voss or Schultz HR.

                      Comment

                        #206
                        Too many other things out there . . .

                        Originally posted by Gaspare View Post
                        I'm sure there are a few paper pushers you'd want but they'd fall under 'infamous' personalitys!
                        I bet all of you would be very pleased to have access to any HR from a pencil-pushing, no-name personality - at 'the right price" . . . and although, at one time, it used to trouble me - I now find much humor in all the subterfuge that transpires amongst collectors . . . most especially, that of these rings. I am not afraid to say, I too would very pleased to have access to a very nice HR from a pencil-pusher . . . but certainly not at any of the propped-up prices of which have transpired over the years.

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                          #207
                          Buying for resale mostly, I am hesitant to buy anything these days, unless the price is low enough, that at least breaking even is a certainty. Reason: it's hard to predict (as it was easy, once before) what the market will bear for almost any collectible - rings are not unique or special in this regard. It's one reason I have transitioned into the auction format for a majority of my business.

                          I only step up to the plate for things that I find fascinating on a personal level, or that are too cheap to pass up. Paid a fortune for the Ribbentrop tunic, and don't for a second, regret it.

                          I think I am not alone in this trend ... many other dealers got caught with their pants down in 2008 when most markets around the world crashed. I was never heavy on inventory stock, so I did okay. But to some extent, dealer spending supports price levels ... look at who does most of the buying at shows. When dealers cut back, prices fall. Anyway, this is just my observation.

                          Comment

                            #208
                            Not sure what is being worried about. Dr. Paul Dietzler ring supposedly sold in April for $4,500 plus $922.50 in fees.

                            Comment

                              #209
                              I'm not worried I hope value tumbles so I can buy more

                              Comment

                                #210
                                Any collectable can be manipulated to increase (CG can attest to that with books and appraisal services) or decrease value. If you collect for history, don't worry about it, but if you collect to make money, move out of the collecting field. You are just making it difficult for legitimate collectors to enjoy the history. Ron

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