"Barnfinds" vs. "Dealer's Update's"

[InfanterieSammler]

I thought this would make for an interesting topic for discussion. I have noticed that many people are quick to question "barnfinds", which in most cases is justified, even if the story is mentioned and the item has not been seen yet. Personally, I agree with the suspicions always surrounding "barnfinds" stories, as the prospects of finding an untouched SS tunic in a barn 60 yrs later are almost nil.
OK, I understand the suspicion around the "barnfind" story. So I would like to ask a hypothetical question here and I will just make up an example. Would anybody find it odd when a dealer offers 5 W-SS tunics, and can continue to do so on a monthly basis? Doesn't the idea of this strike anyone as next-to-impossible. Personally, I am super-suspicious whenever I see a single SS tunic for sale, because the odds of finding one original and untouched(this is the key word) are incredibly low. Now let's make my hypothetical example even more interesting/alarming, let's say that all five tunics are assembled in the same way, insignia sewn on in the same, and amazingly and imagine the dealer's luck, all five tunics are to highly decorated soldiers. And don't forget, this pattern is repeated month after month?
Does anyone else feel that this would be an impossible set of circumstances, almost as ridiculous as a "barnfind" story. Would anybody have the stones to step and question this. Are we only critical of other collectors who claim the impossible, but not a dealer who does the same? John

[derspiess63]

I thought this would make for an interesting topic for discussion. I have noticed that many people are quick to question "barnfinds", which in most cases is justified, even if the story is mentioned and the item has not been seen yet. Personally, I agree with the suspicions always surrounding "barnfinds" stories, as the prospects of finding an untouched SS tunic in a barn 60 yrs later are almost nil.
OK, I understand the suspicion around the "barnfind" story. So I would like to ask a hypothetical question here and I will just make up an example. Would anybody find it odd when a dealer offers 5 W-SS tunics, and can continue to do so on a monthly basis? Doesn't the idea of this strike anyone as next-to-impossible. Personally, I am super-suspicious whenever I see a single SS tunic for sale, because the odds of finding one original and untouched(this is the key word) are incredibly low. Now let's make my hypothetical example even more interesting/alarming, let's say that all five tunics are assembled in the same way, insignia sewn on in the same, and amazingly and imagine the dealer's luck, all five tunics are to highly decorated soldiers. And don't forget, this pattern is repeated month after month?
Does anyone else feel that this would be an impossible set of circumstances, almost as ridiculous as a "barnfind" story. Would anybody have the stones to step and question this. Are we only critical of other collectors who claim the impossible, but not a dealer who does the same? John

Amen to that, John,but..........who's this guy?
Manny

[TONY Q.W.]

John I 101% agree with you. I find it very peculiar for A dealer to have so many ss tunics on his site and every update to replenish his stock with new and so on and so on. I'll take it one step lower...I find it very peculiar to find a dealer to have so many heer M38s, M40's tunics on his site.

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

I thought this would make for an interesting topic for discussion. I have noticed that many people are quick to question "barnfinds", which in most cases is justified, even if the story is mentioned and the item has not been seen yet. Personally, I agree with the suspicions always surrounding "barnfinds" stories, as the prospects of finding an untouched SS tunic in a barn 60 yrs later are almost nil.
OK, I understand the suspicion around the "barnfind" story. So I would like to ask a hypothetical question here and I will just make up an example. Would anybody find it odd when a dealer offers 5 W-SS tunics, and can continue to do so on a monthly basis? Doesn't the idea of this strike anyone as next-to-impossible. Personally, I am super-suspicious whenever I see a single SS tunic for sale, because the odds of finding one original and untouched(this is the key word) are incredibly low. Now let's make my hypothetical example even more interesting/alarming, let's say that all five tunics are assembled in the same way, insignia sewn on in the same, and amazingly and imagine the dealer's luck, all five tunics are to highly decorated soldiers. And don't forget, this pattern is repeated month after month?
Does anyone else feel that this would be an impossible set of circumstances, almost as ridiculous as a "barnfind" story. Would anybody have the stones to step and question this. Are we only critical of other collectors who claim the impossible, but not a dealer who does the same? John

yep john
this is the same with the m-43 cap,s the double-decall helmets
etc etc
greeting,s

[TMurray]

John,
Name the dealer, that way we can 1). offer personal opinions if we have dealt with them before and 2). checkout the stock being offered for assessment
rgds Thomas

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

Amen to that, John,but..........who's this guy?
Manny

Hello Manny , that,s a liitle disapointed to me
I thought you where the sherlock holmess on this side


greeting,s WATSON

[Brian C.]

Elementary my dear Watson. My guess would be PVL.


P.S. That LAH wrapper on his latest update is very, very nice.

[Bill D.]

Interesting...

I have wondered about that exact question.

When I was a kid, my dentist was a man who had served in combat in Europe in World War II. He told me that when the war ended, check points were set up through which German prisoners and civilians had to pass. He was instructed, along with other G.I.'s, to check under the arm of all young males. They were looking for the SS blood type tattoo.

Additionally, the SS was declared a criminal organization by the Nuremburg International Military Tribunal.

And yet, although these men were specifically sought by allied forces for investigation, and although there was no end to the labeling of all SS men, Waffen SS or otherwise, as potential war criminals....

Nevertheless, it seems as though entire divisions-worth of SS men kept their uniforms, and many of them kept them in pretty darn clean condition, although they were combat tunics !

Beyond that, I started collecting in about 1970. I cannot figure out why there are far more SS tunics, helmets, and caps available today then in those days. SS material was very highly sought then, and I can't believe it is all accounted for by veterans passing away and things coming out of there attics, especially when it is all in such fine condition.

[Dave Kane]

Excellent John....and Bill, I couldn't agree more with your percipient views


Where there is the demand...there will be supply!

[Jean-Loup]

So true. Just finding a plain german helmet isnt easy..
JL

[Jos L C]

Just try to find a decent pair of original Kusten Artillerie shoulderstraps or a pair of cotton heavy cloth Luft Afrika straps... .......

to find SS straps is less difficult...and they come with the jacket ,if you want..

I always wondered why finding some "normal" stuff is so difficult ,while rare stuff is just behind the door..?!

And the nicest thing is ,as been said ,it just keeps coming..!!

Demand ,gentlemen ,demand... and "Phoof " a new load is coming..
And what about all those jackets with cuff titles and shields ?
NCO is quite popular at the moment..
M43 caps ,SS,Panzer...and where are all those greatcoats lately ?
Yes,we've 80 visors in stock ,but sorry..,not one pair of pilot gloves..
Yes,we've 8 panzer wrappers at the moment ,but sorry..,we haven't seen a decent pair of flightboots for a long time..
I can go on...
A little strange...but hey..!

BUT ,if you badly want all those items ,better don't ask these questions ,they only make people upset and wondering..

Still many believers though ,the business is still active like it never was before..

Jos.

[TONY Q.W.]

[Dallas]

I remember when I was a kid in 1963 (there I dated myself, more or less) and saw literally stacks upon stacks of German helmets, some with decals, and others with holes, etc. at an Army/Navy surplus store. They were selling them for $5. Needless to say, I didn't have $5. I agree with these comments on rarity and availability. But something needs to be said as to what people will collect. More are apt to have collected or sold items as tunics, etc. or other "neat" stuff than something as rudimentary as gloves or common items that could be used for their own practical purposes. Those might have been worn or tossed if you know what I'm getting at.

....and something else. As far as dewat ordnance, I can find, or used to be able to find 88mm L/71 AP rounds, but finding a 75mm L/48 AP type is very difficult.

So true. Just finding a plain german helmet isnt easy..
JL

[airborne_steve]

When I was stationed in Germany in the early to mid 90's some WWI and WWII military stuff started showing up from the east block.

Also, when we closed the US base at Nurenburg, some GI found german helmets and stuff locked away, forgotton in one of the buildings. Needless to say, the stuff was pretty rough.

Some times you can find stuff in an attic/barn.

Steve

[MGN]

John brings up a good point,
I guess the internet and the ability for items to move around quicker is what is going on, In the mean time I must agree that a few things such as SS M43's are appearing now more then ever with a list of other things, the East might have to do something with it, lets not forget the Russia warehouses with tons of stuff

Michael