dachau cloth

[Bob Coleman]

Peter-

I started collecting in 1956 at the age of 11. I wanted to collect US Civil War items but the price was way above the level a grade schooler could afford. Back in those days, many times a kid could get items for free as the wife wanted "the junk" out of the house. My good friend Bob Hritz, a respected and knowledgable SS cloth collector, who I have known for over 40 years, has handled 100 times the SS insignia I have. He also chuckles about the "urban legend" that all this material is fake. What I can say is that I have encountered small, medium size and even huge groups of insignia taken from the Dachau factories over the years. An aquantance once bought over 500 cufftitles from one fellow. For those who have entered the hobby in the past 15-20 years, everything is in doubt. They find it difficult to believe that these amounts of original material could be brought back by returning servicemen. As US Army troops liberated Dachau, the majority of the material taken from the factories would, of course, been brought back to the United States. This would account for the shortage of these items in other areas of the Allied world. It is amazing to me what propostorous stories come out about different items being fake that old timers know to be period manufacture. Due to the fact that the reproduction of cloth items in the 50's and 60's was crude and collectors were few, there was no market for high end forgeries. never forget that the fakes are driven by one thing-GREED.

Bob

[nutmeg]

I started collecting WWII German about 1970 (although I had dabled with it in the 60s) and continued to about 1978. I started again a few years ago. I can tell you that the fake insignia of the 1960s were a joke compared to what is being made today . Having less access to information and with few reference books we were proportionately more easily duped with items that would not fool the rankest novice today. There was also a huge amount of material available locally from veterans. I collected an astonishing amount of great material for peanuts right within 20 miles of where I lived. It was commonplace . Local Pennysaver ads produced calls EVERY DAY and good things several times a week. Even Civil War and Revolutionary War items. Most people at that time did not also have any idea of the value of things and were delighted to dispose of it. . The interest level in loose insignia was not strong at that time as it is today. The rarest SS cufftitles might be $75.00-$100.00 if you were willing to pay the sucker price. I had 30 Fuhrer HQ cufftitles from a 101AB veteran and I could only get $100.00 each and had a hard time getting that much . Some were even stenciled in yellow on the back with the maker's name.

[Peter R.]

Well, that all sounds pretty convincing. If the Dachau items would have turned up only in the last 10 or 15 years you'd have to forgive a lot of people for being suspicious, but if it was commonplace in the 50s then you'd have to consider - as you point out - the lack of motive to make them back then as well as the excess quality, compared to what was required to market fakes back then.

Thanks for posting that info - your taking the time is much appreciated.

[Gary Wood]

Maybe to us older collectors it is not a problem about these tabs, they were more plentiful years ago and much cheaper then as well.And years ago when you bought items you did not have the vet sit down and give you a sworn statement as to when and where he got them from, in the "old" days you were just happy to get the bits, its only of late when everyone wants a story that to a lot of collectors this seems important, never mind the stories look at the items

I would also like to say when you investigate any thing you follow the trail of evidence, and there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the so called dachau tabs are fake end of story, that is why the latest scam was a major disservice.

I also think someone mentioned why were there no runics found in the Dachau hordes, well there was and the photo's I provided in the past thread of the horde Bob Hritz bought you will see a pile of runics.

Sal,
the "obviously not a dachau tab" is an allgemeine-ss pioneer tab not something you would really find at dachau
cheers,
Gary

[Bob Coleman]

Gary-

Very well stated. In the old days, veteran's bring backs were not tainted by later additions of fake material. We were excited to find a new horde of treasures for the collection. it was even more exciting when you discovered something that had not been in the basic refernce books. There is a totally different mind set in the new collectors and the old veterans.
Bob

[Gary Wood]

bump

[billbert]

Or the story a fellow senior collector told me a few years (10)about the HEAVY fez he bought from a coin shop..only after the purchase did he take it apart...there were like four red ones and two green ones ..all from dachau hordes no doubt!! Billbert