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**Bob Coleman** · 08-31-2004, 07:00 AM

For those of us who have collected for 40+ years(and some even less), the concept of the Dachau tabs being fake is hilarious. I, as have many other collectors, have bought many large groupings of this material from US military veterans who all told the same story as to where they obtained this material.. The insignia was not only limited to collar tabs. Sleeve eagles, cufftitles, hat trapazoids and even the famous Handschar fez were obtained in great numbers. I once encountered a vet who had a stack of the red fezes, still baled together.

Therefore, it would require a grand conspiracy of US military veterans scattered across the country starting in the late 1940's through modern times, bringing back stacks of valueless reproduction insignia and concocting the same story, knowing that in 50 + years it would attain value

. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!
Aside from insignia, stored uniforms, dagggers, swords,headgear and every other item used by the SS were also liberated from storage lockers.
Bob

**Sal Williams** · 08-31-2004, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Gary Wood

And finally quite obviously not a dachau tab, this is a patch owned by fellow moderator M.V.

Hi Gary,
Thanks for the lesson

! Forgive my ignorance but why is that one obviously not a dachau insignia? How does one know if an insignia came out of Dachau by looking? I'm just trying to catch up here

Best, Sal

**Gary Wood** · 08-31-2004, 10:04 AM

"Forgive my ignorance but why is that one obviously not a dachau insignia?"

**Gary Wood** · 08-31-2004, 10:17 AM

Sorry sal, but why would think that tab could come from Dachau

cheers,

Gary

**Sal Williams** · 08-31-2004, 10:30 AM

Hi Gary,

I didn't think it came out of Dachau, I just wanted to know how a person can tell

. I think you must not realize that I am a complete novice here and really I might be asking questions that seem like I am making insinuations but I am really not!!! I just don't know jack doodley

I'm not kidding Gary, it is because I am a novice and want to learn. Check with some of the other mods, they will tell you it is true.

Best, Sal

**Perry Floyd** · 08-31-2004, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by klaushund

For those of us who have collected for 40+ years(and some even less), the concept of the Dachau tabs being fake is hilarious. I, as have many other collectors, have bought many large groupings of this material from US military veterans who all told the same story as to where they obtained this material.. The insignia was not only limited to collar tabs. Sleeve eagles, cufftitles, hat trapazoids and even the famous Handschar fez were obtained in great numbers. I once encountered a vet who had a stack of the red fezes, still baled together.

Therefore, it would require a grand conspiracy of US military veterans scattered across the country starting in the late 1940's through modern times, bringing back stacks of valueless reproduction insignia and concocting the same story, knowing that in 50 + years it would attain value

. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!
Aside from insignia, stored uniforms, dagggers, swords,headgear and every other item used by the SS were also liberated from storage lockers.
Bob

Agreed, the famous SS M43 caps with the exposed cardboard visor were brought back in large quanity's from Dachau. Collectors have coined this one style of M43 as the "Dachau style M43". Stacks of these M43's and SS fez's were brought back filled with cuff titles and other "Dachau" insigna..

**Felix** · 08-31-2004, 11:42 AM

...Well....

I havnt posted anything on this subject yet... But there are some facts to take into consideration. I dont claim to be right, but noteworthy is;

Firstly; The reason why there were som many foreign volounteer tabs found in Dachau can probably be explained by the grandiose plans of the Nazi leaders. They planned very optimistically for lots of peoples from different countries to join the SS. This theory can be supported by the many changes in appearence for some volounteer tabs and shields. They wanted to make it more appealing for foreigners to join the SS and to fulfill the dreams of the Nazi leaders. Sometimes the dreams are more important than the reality. Thats why orders came for huge production and a readiness for the expected "mass-joining". The distribution of all sorts of things was problematic in final stage of war as well. A lot of things never made it into the battle field.

Secondly; Production and reality didnt go hand in hand. A good example is the excellent fighter aircraft Me 262. Many of these were found standing on the ground simply because of the extreme fuel shortage. This shows the lack of perspective of the Fuhrer and other high leaders. Instead a lot of energy and production resources was spend on the crazy project of the V2 rockets.

Third; Why is the term "Dachau insignia" mostly used for foriegn volounteer stuff like tabs and shields? Why isnt BeVo cuff titles as LAH known under the name "Dachau insignia"? Many cufftitles were also found in great numbers. I even believe that many SS officer flat wire cuffs were found in the Dachau clothing depot.

Fourth; Why the h-ll is the tropical SS insignia relatively common when so much more grey insignia was produced?

Fifth; There must be many uniforms with impeccable provenance which have the so called Dachau type of insignia attached to it. Its simple to place them next to eachother and compare.

Sixth; My personal opinion is - Im really surprised if there isnt more modern and better copies than the Delta tabs to deal with today. These tabs were made many years ago and were very good for the time being. If you compare to the development for other fakes, the cloth fakes of today should be better than the delta tabs. How easy isnt it to fake a "Nordland" Dachau tab?? It goes for around $ 300 and for this money one man in Pakistan can work 2-3 months.

Now I have wrote enough for today.

/Felix

**Terry K.** · 08-31-2004, 12:53 PM

Ditto to what Gary and felix said.

I just want to remind the new people, the German economy did not go to a war footing until after July 1943. They were still producing civilian items until that time. The production of military items from then on really took off, in fact, many things were produced in larger numbers than all the years before. Then, if you add in that most delievery systems were operating under unbeleivable conditions, it is no wonder that many items(including cloth from Dachau) was just sitting there at the end of the war.
That's about all I have to add.

**Bob Coleman** · 08-31-2004, 12:59 PM

War makes profit for few and misery for many. Many years ago I bought two Luftwaffe gravity knives and an aluminum Luftwaffe belt buckle from a vet. He told me he took them from a box car that was full of these items only. Government contracts always produce more than the immediate need. I am quite sure the SS, being poitive, imagined a growing uprising among the anti communists in the East and expected their foreign legions to grow. With a free labor force, why not make as much as possible. The only costs were machinery and materials.
Bob

**Sal Williams** · 08-31-2004, 01:31 PM

Hi Folks,
Are there no pics of Dachau insignia in wear? Is it suspected then that all the Dachau stuff was unissued?

Best, Sal

Just trying to learn here guys

**Bob Coleman** · 08-31-2004, 01:36 PM

Sal-

How would you know from a picture where the insignia was made? Thee are many period photographs of volunteer insignia being worn. Was it all made at Dachau? I don't know.
Bob

**Sal Williams** · 08-31-2004, 01:46 PM

Well I don't know

that's why I was asking earlier how you tell a Dachau from a non dachau insignia?

Man you SS boys are a tough crowd!

Best, Sal

**Peter R.** · 08-31-2004, 07:10 PM

Hi Sal, I think the reason the tab that Gary posted was 'obviously' not a Dachau tab might be because the known 'Dachau' tabs are all for foreign volunteer units, whereas the tab shown was for a different unit/designation.

Mind you, I'm reading up from a novice perspective myself at the moment, so I could be wrong.

If you search around the forum, there's some good threads about the Dachau items dating from a time when people weren't as stressed and angry about their provenance being debated.

**Peter R.** · 08-31-2004, 07:15 PM

Klaushund: Do I read you correctly to say that you've personally met US vets back in the late 50s/early 60s with bunches of the 'Dachau' material?

That could be a pretty positive sign, especially when operating under the assumption that back then fakes were pretty coarse compared to the uber-fakes stumping collectors nowadays - the Dachau tabs would had to have been super-fakes in an era when nobody made fakes that good.

**nutmeg** · 08-31-2004, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by klaushund

War makes profit for few and misery for many. Many years ago I bought two Luftwaffe gravity knives and an aluminum Luftwaffe belt buckle from a vet. He told me he took them from a box car that was full of these items only. Government contracts always produce more than the immediate need. I am quite sure the SS, being poitive, imagined a growing uprising among the anti communists in the East and expected their foreign legions to grow. With a free labor force, why not make as much as possible. The only costs were machinery and materials.
Bob

Hey, in the 70s I bought a complete paratrooper parachute and case from a veteran who told me he found a boxcar full of them. Wonder if it was the same train?

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