Announcement

**Thorsten B.** · 02-09-2012, 12:33 PM

All mentioned pieces have been made in the Art Déco period anyway.

The solution is as followed:

The difference Allach made in their production range - like any other porcelain manufactury from the very beginning of Meissen up to today - is to divide it up between two segments of produced pieces:

1.: Zierporzellan = decorative / ornamental porcelain

2.: Gebrauchsporzellan = tableware

The consistence and ingredients of the material is totally different between segment 1 and segment 2.

Allach produced and offered both segments from the official start in 1936 on, nonetheless putting the main focus clearly on segment 1 up to that degree that - with few exceptions - almost the whole segment 2 was ordered from and executed other german porcelain manufacturies such as Victoria and Rosenthal but marked with the Allach stamp.

Allach was just not in the economical possibility (man-power, space and output) to fulfill Himmler´s growing demand of fine tableware so that this outsorcing process was necessary and finally found it´s solution by overtaking the Bohemia porcelain manufactury to realize a schedule as followed:

Segment 1 produced by PMA (Allach and Dachau)

Segment 2 produced by Bohemia

**Vid** · 02-09-2012, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

All mentioned pieces have been made in the Art Déco period anyway.

The solution is as followed:

The difference Allach made in their production range - like any other porcelain manufactury from the very beginning of Meissen up to today - is to divide it up between two segments of produced pieces:

1.: Zierporzellan = decorative / ornamental porcelain

2.: Gebrauchsporzellan = tableware

The consistence and ingredients of the material is totally different between segment 1 and segment 2.

Allach produced and offered both segments from the official start in 1936 on, nonetheless putting the main focus clearly on segment 1 up to that degree that - with few exceptions - almost the whole segment 2 was ordered from and executed other german porcelain manufacturies such as Victoria and Rosenthal but marked with the Allach stamp.

Allach was just not in the economical possibility (man-power, space and output) to fulfill Himmler´s growing demand of fine tableware so that this outsorcing process was necessary and finally found it´s solution by overtaking the Bohemia porcelain manufactury to realize a schedule as followed:

Segment 1 produced by PMA (Allach and Dachau)

Segment 2 produced by Bohemia

I am awestruck!! Wow!. O.k, that must be the answer to the Robin question then. Case closed, thank you Thorsten!.

Kris

**Thorsten B.** · 02-09-2012, 12:55 PM

Yes - Allach never made a robin.

The offered humped up Allach great tit - if the faked painting can be removed - will turn into a normal white piece again.

And should be offered as such including a befitting price reduction.

Offering this odd fish for 8,5K is fraud.

**frits66** · 02-09-2012, 01:35 PM

Soldier on a motorcycle

Can someone tell me who the manufacturer and the timing?

**Vid** · 02-09-2012, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

Yes - Allach never made a robin.

The offered humped up Allach great tit - if the faked painting can be removed - will turn into a normal white piece again.

And should be offered as such including a befitting price reduction.

Offering this odd fish for 8,5K is fraud.

Thorsten,

Let me tell you something about fraud and your claims. I have been on this market a long time and I watch Allach, not only do I watch Allach but Dennis watches Allach as do other core collectors of Allach and have for a long time now. These issue’s with color are not new but are most often discussed privately and notes are taken on the pieces as they move.

I realize you want to put a trophy author on your wall so that you can martyr yourself or be some kind of expert but this is a hobby to me and a constant learning curve and I am just not willing to call this bird. The painter is not American he is European, he knows Allach enough that he would get the colors right from a Tit to a Robin. While Allach may be one of the most consistent in any production during the war there are variables, and you should know this. Ill leave it to the big flashy dealers to speculate on items as to why their correct and how their expertise should not be questioned, its not what I do. But the fact of the matter is, Himmler was the bird man and that bird could have been painted by any Allach artisan for any person and for any reason, and it is good enough that its not being called off one photograph. Not by me, not by you, not by anyone in my honest opinion. Unless of course you painted it.

You want to come into this market and scare people over a colored bird and I am going to come in and set the record straight with what I know of these pieces, I promise you it will not shine a good light on you. Dennis has this bird, he has been at this a long time and so have I. You may have some knowledge and expertise but your not telling me anything here. So you keep on talking about fraud and I am going to turn this thread around real fast and it will not be Porell’s head on the table. You think long and hard about that, take it how you want and I do not care. You want to screw with market and scare people and I will tell you what I know Mr. Expert.

Dennis has a very clear pattern of disclosure on all items that have been repaired and many of those would never be caught by a buyer, that is ethics, and that is where you are not an expert.

Do as you wish, you have been warned. I expect you will ignore that and that is just fine with me.

Kris

**Vid** · 02-09-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by frits66 View Post

Can someone tell me who the manufacturer and the timing?

This is Asian junk, and this is not the thread to discuss this piece now, don't mean to be rude but start another thread.

**Thorsten B.** · 02-09-2012, 01:59 PM

Mr. Lindblom,

Please keep ANY personal agenda and attacks outside of this thread.

I have no problem with you, no problem with Dennis Porell or anybody else.

BUT I do have a problem with this particular bird as you have noticed.

And that seems to be YOUR problem and I surely won´t let it become mine.

In regards to your ridiculous personal pseudo-threats against me:

As others stated don´t drink and post!

**Vid** · 02-09-2012, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

Mr. Lindblom,

Please keep ANY personal agenda and attacks outside of this thread.

I have no problem with you, no problem with Dennis Porell or anybody else.

BUT I do have a problem with this particular bird as you have noticed.

And that seems to be YOUR problem and I surely won´t let it become mine.

In regards to your ridiculous personal pseudo-threats against me:

As others stated don´t drink and post!

Any mod can read my post and know what it means, it means you got hold of a big ole can of Whoop-a*s and you have removed the safety. The agenda is yours and that is clear, I will release data and your in it.

Later,

Kris

**Thorsten B.** · 02-09-2012, 02:50 PM

It can´t be more ridiculous and low, can it?

**PBR** · 02-09-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

It can´t be more ridiculous and low, can it?

Keep the personal remarks for yourself, got it my friend?

Kris, very interested to know what you gonna produce.

**Vid** · 02-09-2012, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

It can´t be more ridiculous and low, can it?

Thorsten,

Just think about what your doing here and if you have no issue with the persons than stop accusing people of fraudulent behavior and craft your words more carefully. This is Allach Porcelain and people who are not low level scum knocking off wound badges and such. Everyone operates to a standard and generally work together, except you of course.

You want to argue the bird than you need to stop spouting off and do it right and compare it with the right pieces, not ones that suit you.

I am done for the day on this.

Kris

**Thorsten B.** · 02-09-2012, 03:02 PM

T.K.,

I think you are addressing the wrong person.

Yes, I am eagerly waiting what Mr. Lindblom wants to present to us as well.

**Thorsten B.** · 02-09-2012, 03:06 PM

"This is Allach Porcelain..."

Correction:

It is humped up Allach porcelain.

And now please feel free and release your data.

**A c h t u n g !** · 02-09-2012, 03:09 PM

Dear Kris, first of all, welcome back to the jungle

just please remember they have very low standards for those who "returned" and many good members that returned are now gone forever for just funny things. Sad but true. I would advise you to ignore more

**Vid** · 02-09-2012, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by A c h t u n g ! View Post

Dear Kris, first of all, welcome back to the jungle

just please remember they have very low standards for those who "returned" and many good members that returned are now gone forever for just funny things. Sad but true. I would advise you to ignore more

I am going to take your advice I think and consider the source of this thread. Its just there are those of us in the hobby that operate in a manner in line with the product that we enjoy, and the standards are high and we try and maintain them in every way in the course of doing business and in collecting.

Thank you,

Kris

Announcement

Allach - expensive humped up piece on specialized dealer site!

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