Warning: session_start(): open(/var/cpanel/php/sessions/ea-php74/sess_838cf62b4d5cd17974e3946955f82c77a1027af4e17d0fe6, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/devwehrmacht/public_html/forums/includes/vb5/frontend/controller/page.php on line 71 Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/cpanel/php/sessions/ea-php74) in /home/devwehrmacht/public_html/forums/includes/vb5/frontend/controller/page.php on line 71 W-SS M-43 & Bergmutze difference - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
David Hiorth

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

W-SS M-43 & Bergmutze difference

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 3
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 template Next
    #1

    W-SS M-43 & Bergmutze difference

    I have been studying reference literature for some time now, comparing many period photo's and yet i still have a question, main difference between a W-SS M-43 and a W-SS Bergmutze !
    The main characteristics of both caps are well known, angle of the front of the side flap, crown, but i am still a bit confused as some M-43's have a tk on the front of the crown and eagle on the side flap, some W-SS Bergmutze have a shorter brim and yet some a longer and also both tk & eagle on the front , same goes for Bergmutze ( please see pics attached ), if this has been allready discussed here at the forum, my apologies, thank you

































    Tags: None
    #2


    Comment

      #3
      Burgmuetze

      Ober,
      Can u post a side by side image of what u consider a typical M43 and then a burgmuetze. That may be helpful.
      Peter

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by Peter Manzie View Post
        Ober,
        Can u post a side by side image of what u consider a typical M43 and then a burgmuetze. That may be helpful.
        Peter
        Bergmutze














        M-43 Einheitsmutze





        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by Obergruppen2 View Post
          but i am still a bit confused as some M-43's have a tk on the front of the crown and eagle on the side flap, some W-SS Bergmutze have a shorter brim and yet some a longer and also both tk & eagle on the front , same goes for Bergmutze ( please see pics attached
          Well Ober, if I recall correctly, regulations stated that TK has to be worn on the front and eagle on the side of the M43 and Bergmutzen both, so the 2 insignas sewn on the front was not "regulation", but I'm not 100% sure about this.
          Anyway I can say you that was up to the owner, I mean that I've seen many pictures of M43 and Bergmutzen with the double insignas on the front, that was a common thing.
          I've seen this a bit more on Bergmutzen or M43 used by alpine troops, I think because there was little room on the side for both the adler and edelweiss, so they prefered to use double insignas on the front and edelweiss on the side.

          Just my 2 Tellers.

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by T.K. View Post
            Well Ober, if I recall correctly, regulations stated that TK has to be worn on the front and eagle on the side of the M43 and Bergmutzen both, so the 2 insignas sewn on the front was not "regulation", but I'm not 100% sure about this.
            Anyway I can say you that was up to the owner, I mean that I've seen many pictures of M43 and Bergmutzen with the double insignas on the front, that was a common thing.
            I've seen this a bit more on Bergmutzen or M43 used by alpine troops, I think because there was little room on the side for both the adler and edelweiss, so they prefered to use double insignas on the front and edelweiss on the side.

            Just my 2 Tellers.
            Maybe so , the Heer Bergmutze is very easy to distinguish from the Heer M-43, the higher crown and shorter brim are the main features of the Herr Bergmutze besides the T shaped insignia and metal edelweiss but when it comes to the W-SS the trouble starts because if you look at period pics you will see a mix of everything, short & long brims, higher and shorter crowns but i guess it is the side flap in the front of the crown, where the single or double buttons are, they are round and not with sharp edges as on the M-43 but then this is also not a rule !!!

            Comment

              #7
              Bergmuetze

              Interesting thread. I too am not sure of specific differences and have asked this question to others as well. One mans Bergmuetze is another mans M43, and visa-versa.
              Peter

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by Peter Manzie View Post
                Interesting thread. I too am not sure of specific differences and have asked this question to others as well. One mans Bergmuetze is another mans M43, and visa-versa.
                Peter
                Exactly my point but if you have the following books ( Prinz Eugen- The History of the 7.SS Mountain Division, Prinz Eugen im Bild, Karstjager ) one could come to a conclusion that the main difference is the front flap whis more curved and round than the sharp edged front flap on the M-43 and the top of the side flap is more loose on the Bergmutze but as i said, this also cannot be a rule !
                Last edited by Obergruppen2; 12-07-2011, 02:00 PM.

                Comment

                  #9
                  W-SS M-43 Einheitsmutze













                  W-SS Bergmutze


















                  Any comments , thank you

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Where are all the experts ?????????

                    Comment

                      #11
                      this type is Bergmuetze, LP sergio
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ferdinandmax View Post
                        this type is Bergmuetze, LP sergio
                        Sergio, Heer Bergmutze yes but not Waffen-SS, some have just front leather head reinforcement and some have none !!!

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Here is a good example of a double button bergmutze !

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Might I suggest that rather than trying to categorize all types of SS feldmuetzen into what is considered today as bergmuetzen or not, look in the period publications regarding the correct terms for such caps and for RZM tags.

                            As far as I'm aware, there was never an officialy recorded "SS Bergmuetze".

                            All our post war intentions to classify one is pretty meaningless. For sure there are SS caps that exhibit the classic construction details of the Heer Bergmuetze, which for me is all about how the crown seam is sewn, the cloth wrapped stiffener in the front etc etc. Some of the photos in this thread already show the unique crown sewing which I would consider exclusive to a bergmuetze but that doesn't make them officialy an "SS" bergmuetzen.

                            Within the UM and SS Kleiderkasse publications (correct me if I'm wrong) there is no mention of an SS Bergmuetze. There is however, mention of SS hats and other garments described as sports or ski items.

                            However, I doubt that most collectors would even know what I'm talking about here because you have to read the period publications to know that.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Excellent photos by the way though!

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 template Next

                              Users Viewing this Thread

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 4 users online. 0 members and 4 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 10,032 at 08:13 PM on 09-28-2024.

                              Working...
                              X