Originally posted by ferdinandmax
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Knautschmuetze SS Officer
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Cap
Originally posted by phild View PostI agree that this piping would still be in the range of shades that can be found used in 3rd Reich era PZ uniform items. The cap shape is tougher for me because some imperial caps were cut pretty close to what could be found (based on photos at least) in WWII crushers.
I do think that this one has a lower peak and smaller sized top in general than what is normally seen on a WWII crusher.
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Originally posted by John Pic View PostBob Rice used to throw these together all the time .
I would like to see it stuffed with padding or resting with it's "ceiling" on a hat stand, to see if it has that tell-tale bell-crown shape of earlier caps.
I've studied endless period photos, and whenever I see "crushers" like this one with the TR eagle wings nearly touching the crown piping and the bottom of the wreath within a cm of the upper band piping, it always throws up a huge redflag for me. Even on tellermutze caps, there was always ( ) more room on originals. Plus, I don't like the raw leather underside on TR crushers.
I agree with those that believe this is an original German military cap with SS badges installed. A close examination for previous badge-signs is the way to go.
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I'm back in the fence with this cap. I think that it could be private made SS PZ cap for NCO or even officer...as I doubt that the black velvet band was a must have on these caps as worn by officers.....the period photos certainly show this as the case.
If the cap was for instance made in Vienna it would be reasonable for it to show a lot of little differences with German made caps.....that show differences between themselves as well.
Sorry this is the best I can offer.....but if no other traces of Imperial cockades can be seen....it may be a real crusher....it needs more than photos posted on a forum I think.
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Originally posted by phild View PostI'm back in the fence with this cap. I think that it could be private made SS PZ cap for NCO or even officer...as I doubt that the black velvet band was a must have on these caps as worn by officers.....the period photos certainly show this as the case.
If the cap was for instance made in Vienna it would be reasonable for it to show a lot of little differences with German made caps.....that show differences between themselves as well.
Sorry this is the best I can offer.....but if no other traces of Imperial cockades can be seen....it may be a real crusher....it needs more than photos posted on a forum I think.
(provided there are no holes of prior imperial insignia and I don't see any! )
Note leather visor comparison;
Yes agreed the leather bill is "imperial" length (short) but not much different than this portrait!
This altes model as a very short top...looks imperial to me!Last edited by NickG; 10-28-2011, 11:11 AM.
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Now this presentation (modified) sure looks imperial (short top! short bill) but its obviously not!
As presented the SS crusher has no (imperial) date stamps that were removed, and no obvious extra holes as far as I can tell so its believable to me... regardless of supposedly imperial shape issues... but I understand its SS and pink piped so people are cautious with their opinions!Attached FilesLast edited by NickG; 10-28-2011, 11:27 AM.
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I think it's fair to say that no definite conclusion could ever be realistically be reached about this cap based on the small and poor quality photos (no offence meant) plus TR era Alter Art Feldmeutzen are quite close in design to their Imperial cousins anyway.
However, my gut feeling is that it's Imperial or at least of pre WWII era because of one main reason.
Branch piping for SS caps was not introduced until 1940 and the materials and some of the construction details of this hat speak quite clearly to me at least as being made before 1940.
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I would think that hat sellers, during the early 3rd Reich period, would have used left over Imperial era headgear if the pattern matched the SS type. From period photos, many of the early field worn hats appear to be more of the Imperial shape and more shorter peaked with short visors.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.
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Nick,
Thanks for your photos and illustrations. I noticed that this cap when viewed from the front appears to have more side overhang than many Imperial era caps which definitely lends to the TR appearance. The visor is more problematic for me...but I have seen some Imperial appearing types on definite TR era visors. More food for thought. Thanks,
Richard
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