SS Officer Tunic - Put Together or Fake?

[SJP]

Cypher

Hi Jim, Thanks for the additional photo's ...IMO the cyphers are cast fakes.
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Cheers Steve

[John Pic]

Tabs and Eagle are original tunic looks good ( boiled wool?) and I have no problems with that name tag..boards look good also, the cyphers, I cant tell . Really nice eagle on there. I will add that before we say things like ,"as far as I know that maker didnt make tunics", lets be absolutely sure because thats is just another way of saying "I dont know".

[PMan]

Tunic

I like the tabs, eagle and cuff title. The images of the cyphers are not sufficient to render a proper decision.
Peter

[Richard P]

At a glance the tabs appear original, but I don't care for their attachment (sewing). The sleeve eagle looks very nice. The boards look a little sloppy, closer look needed...except I agree with SJP, cyphers are cast fakes. It helps to have an original set handy for comparison and there is a big difference. The CT looks good without going and looking up originals for comparison.

The tailors tag material looks O.K. if you look real close, but the yellowish cast makes it look fake. Warrants a closer look. Tunic materials look good with just a few photos. Opinion could change with better and more detailed photos.

It all depends how much you spent, and even if its a put together, you might do fine value wise on parts alone.

Richard

[Ian Hulley]

At a glance the tabs appear original, but I don't care for their attachment (sewing). The sleeve eagle looks very nice. cyphers are cast fakes. The CT looks good

Sums up my thoughts nicely. Ian.

[Johnny R]

Tabs and Eagle are original tunic looks good ( boiled wool?) and I have no problems with that name tag..boards look good also, the cyphers, I cant tell . Really nice eagle on there. I will add that before we say things like ,"as far as I know that maker didnt make tunics", lets be absolutely sure because thats is just another way of saying "I dont know".

I will be more explicit to clarify- In the 1941 Berlin phone book Emil S. is listed as having a Mutzenfabrik. I have never seen a tailor tag from them but of course I have not seen everything so as far as I know based on the information I have that maker did not make tunics etc. but it is possible.

The tunic really needs to be looked at more closely. I do not like the tag either.

[John Pic]

The sewing of the tab is not what is more commonly seen where tailors run the stitch closer to the edge of the tab so it is almost hidden. When I had a tunic restored by an old school trained German tailor, that happened and what he told me was that the material stretched and the stitch fell into the gap area because he used a tight setting to try and get through the buckram. I have seen it done like on this tunic when thin guage thread is used on both bobbins on tunics that were for the most part restorations but also on a couple that supposedly were not.

Johnny I don't know either but decievers might use a cap name tag in a tunic, I just havent seen too many cap name tags like that.

As far as cyphers go I've held loose originals vet aquired and Ive owned originals still on the boards..I cant tell the difference and I found flaws with the originals that people here say come from casting . I also have studied mass produced fakes made for Traders of the Lost Surplus and they were slightly smaller than originals. Still difficult to tell.Don't know how it can be done without a set of real ones in hand.

Jazza if you have a UV light take the tunic into a pitch dark room and hold the light about 10 inches from the right breast if you see an eagle shadow well its probably a made up piece and if there was an eagle it will show even if its very slight.

[Jazza]

Thank you all for showing interest in the tunic and submitting your opinions.

It would appear the tunic component parts are original (except for the cyphers where there is mixed opinion) so the "put together tunic" is still a possibility.

If you gentlemen don't mind may I respectfully request some more of your time and I will submit more photos of the cyphers and shoulder boards, etc for you to examine.

John Pic
I will try the UV test and get back to you.

If you could all bear with me in the meantime.

Thanks
Jim

[Jazza]

Here are some more photos of the cypher

[Jazza]

More of the cypher. Don't know if these help!

[Jazza]

These are where the shoulder board attaches to the tunic.Again hopefully these might help/hinder opinion.
Jim

[Jazza]

These are the tunic interior photos. Again hopefully they will help.
For information there are no obvious holes/tears in the tunic lining for anything to be inserted as was asked about the interior earlier on.
Jim

[John Pic]

The drilled out holes on the cyphers are a feature I missed at first and the others must've caught. I have to agree I do not care for them.

Id say you have a post war assembled tunic with a made up name tag added.

[viva_giulio]

cyphers not good

[Johnny R]

Are the seams of the lining and interior where the sleeves and lining borders join the inside of the lapels hand sewn or machine sewn?