How long should a warranty on a item be ???

[lolle]

Fake, real, untouched ? This seems to be a problem from time to time. The uniform mentioned above, and other uniforms sold in Norway, from DeMil, and others too

When discussing sale of such uniforms, and refund, fakes, non fakes etc. I have made a list of things I that makes me wonder. I don’t collect, I don’t buy/sell uniforms, and I cant tell whats real, or whats a fake.
Anyone else think this is bogus sales ?
MY coments from postings on a uniform in Norway, would like to see other coments.

1)For some time ago I bought this tunic directly from a man living in Oslo. His father was a resistance movement soldier in Oslo during the war. Red flag..

2)His father took this tunic at “Furulund” headquarters in May 1945. Same as no 1

3)This tunic has belonged to SS-Oberführer Heinrich Fehlis, Red flag..Says who ? The son, the father, or the present owner ?

4)This is Fehlis field tunic used in the winter time. Same as above, Red flag.. source for this statement ?

5)It could also have been used buy Fehlis when he was fighting in the hard battles in Klidi and Kastoria (Balkan). red flag..can anyone verify this ? Its just speculations

6)This tunic in 100 % untouched. Red flag…Fehlis medals are missing, the ribbon still on, why ?

7)My tunic has 5 buttons and more like a Waffen-SS used tunic than a SD used one.
So I think he used this tunic in the battlefield in Balkan in 1942. Red flag..same as no 5

8)The collar is used and dirty so he has used this tunic a lot with open collar, when leader of the SD in Norway. Red flag..is this a proof of anything at all ?

7)This is the ONLY photo I have found of Heinrich Fehlis with my tunic.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1282035974
This picture is taken in February 1945 and shows him wearing my tunic under his coat.
Red flag..How can anyone tell that its my uniform when looking at that picture ?

8)A group of 75 Gestapo and SD men changed to Gebirgsjäger uniforms and moved to a camp near Porsgrunn.
The British heard about this, because a young guy working in the camp saw SD uniforms taken of the men and burned on a fire in the middle of the camp.
Red flag..not the uniform mentioned above, why ?

9)The piping color is for "Feldgendarmerie". Red flag..would any other colour not be “genuine” ?

10) The visor was without insignias when I got it and I see now that I have put the skull to low. On the photos the skull is higher on the visor. Red flag..the uniform was untouched, but the visor was stripped clean..even on the inside..why ?

11) IMO this is the most important German uniform known to exist in Norway. Red flag..None of the above lines can verify this..

12) http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1286915194
A untouched uniform, stripped for medals, but not the ribbon, a visor stripped outside and look at it now..

Just wondering why so many collectors are saying WOW, THIS IS A TREASURE..GREAT..
IF this was genuine Fehlis uniform, untouched, not messed with at all, what would be the value of such a uniform ?
And how many of you would have bought such a uniform if having the money ? without warranty?
Lolle

[DeMil]

A bit of topic lolle but:

First of all the tunic and visor are not for sale.
They have been in the Bugge family (Oslo) since 1945. Well known among collectors.
The tunic was taken at Furulund in May 1945. This is stated by the son and I have this written from him.
The ribbon has been moved at one time otherwise the collar patches, shoulder boards and arm eagle have never been off this tunic. The family has not tuched the insignias.
The visor was without insignias when I got it.

As you live in Norway you are more that welcome to come and take a close inspection of the uniform and visor, over a cup of coffee or a beer .

Regards

Derek

[BenVK]

If I am not misstaken, I sold a Pz crusher cap to Derek about 6 or 7 years ago. I didn't get rave reviews here on the forum about the cap but it was not condemned as a fake either. Anyway, it was posted here for all to see.

I priced it very low with no guarantee because to be honest, I had just started out as a collector and just wanted to get my money back. Derek was an established dealer already and was very eager to buy the cap. Anyway, the way I remember it, I heard nothing for about 6 months after he had bought it but then he emailed saying that he wanted his money back because he'd taken it to some museum and they had said it wasn't orginal. I said that it was too late and then he went on about something about honour between collectors and all that sh!t. What honour? he might have sold it for 3 times what he paid for it by now so where is this imaginative "honour"? It's the same with this SS tunic or anything that he's ever bought and sold? There is no honour or no "doing the right thing", open your eyes, it's just business.

Oh, and by the way, no personal vendetta against Derek or anyone else.
THIS IS BIG BUSINESS my friends and next time you think a business man is doing you a favour, think again!

[FW 200]

So is it correct that legal action, if any, will take place in Norway? In that case, application of foreign contract law would have no weight, IMO. Second, suppose this: you sold someone a nice Krieghoff luger 19 years ago, described the same as your uniform set. The buyer, having been told by experts, informs you the gun has been renumbered, has a couple Mauser or DWM parts, etc., etc. Then he informs you he wants a refund, not the origional purchase price, but a Krieghoff in 100% correct condition? I'm guessing this issue is much better resolved between both of you, and out of court. Then I would talk to a Norwegian lawyer, if you cannot come to an agreement. Just my guess, it's not a regular contract case, but one involving "specific performance". In other words, a judge will tell you, if you lose, "you WILL give this guy an origional SS coat, it WILL have all origional SS insignia, and it WILL be in the condition as was described." But I've seen no elements here, necessary to ask for specific performance at least in US court, one of which is a written contract. The issue here, as I see it, is how important your business/friend relationship with the buyer is. I, personally, would not expect a friend to go shopping for me in a situation like this. What if he becomes disenchanted with what you pick out, and years from now tells you to get another one, based on what another expert says? Has anyone on the Forum had something like this happpen to them?

[BenVK]

I really don't know what you guys are smoking?

You sell something, the buyer is more than happy and sells it onto someone else for a profit. That's the last you'll ever hear about it.

In comparison, the buyer tries to sell it but no one is buying. That's when it comes back to you and I don't care whether it's 100% original or not, the bottom line is that it always comes back to the seller when the buyer can't sell it on for a profit, so they think, I know, I'll try and claim the money back from the seller and cut my losses! Fact of life.

[dhunter93]

Some of you might remember the infamous SS visor cap that led to the exit of a once prominent member and dealer. If you all can think back to the (now scrubbed) thread in which one crooked dealer had another crooked dealer put his FAKE SS visor up for sale. The visor cap was then posted in the forum and the first crooked dealer (who was the owner of the visor cap but pretended not to be) verified the SS visor cap as real. Once the crooked operation was figured out the once vaunted member fled and was gone (at least under his last persona) for good. The reason I bring this up is because often times fakes are passed off to unwitting buyer who rely on the dealer (who always calls himself an"expert") to be telling the truth. Admittedly the buyer should beware , but selling a fake that you claim to be real is wrong! No excuse about time passing and denigrating the buyer as stupid will change that. Some dealers are honest, but unfortunately they are the exception..

[SgtB]

your honour is true .

Ha ha! Right! Until you feel the need to exclaim to the whole world that
you honestly had no idea what was going on behind the barbed-wire!


This is a great topic. As a seller I have always believed in "Full Disclosure" and as a buyer I have always believed in "Caveat Emptor". IMO the responsibility is entirely on the buyer to know what he is doing. That, by no means excuses the actions of the legions of scumbag dealers in this hobby over the years, but, let's face it, if you want to buy a Corvette it's on you to know the difference from a Chevette.

Having said that, as a seller, I learned decades ago to never utter the word "original" at the time of sale. As a buyer I harbour no grudges and take responsibility for all of my purchases.

In the last 40 years I have bought, sold, and traded many hundreds of pieces of TR and have never knowingly cheated an honest man. Mistakes have been made both ways, a handful of times of course, and rectified to the satisfaction of all parties when notified. Few things are as stimulating
as a friendly deal between satisfied collectors.

As a seller I have always agreed to an "Unconditional Money-Back Guarentee" only in exchange for an "Unconditional Item-back Guarentee", and I can tell you that many buyers have been only too happy to agree to that without hesitation, when buying an SS M-43 or FJ M-38 from me, and then balked completely, years later, when I said I wanted the item back. (I wasn't happy with the money I received .)

Apparently, integrity doesn't work both ways.

I can say that I would gladly buy back any item that I sold 19 years ago. I dearly miss every piece that I have had in my possession.

[maxmin todt]

I can't believe that it took him 19 years to figure out that the insignia is not original!

Derek, i respect your decision if you took tthe tunic back. Your sale/business will clearly strengthened by this. No doubt you are serious!

...but 19 years? I do not think I've don that Respect!

[Rich Moran]

Derek, you did the right thing.

Jacquesf, I deleted my long post because after putting up the explanation that the sentence you've posted came from that lengthly post, I discovered what I believe, Derek took care of his buyer.

[jacquesf]

"It sucks when a 50 dollar item is bogus, it is crushing when a 2,000.00 item is bad and the seller walks away scott free."

yea, right....................."

Now this is ironic and bring back some bade memories. It happened to me. Jacques

[Rich Moran]

"It sucks when a 50 dollar item is bogus, it is crushing when a 2,000.00 item is bad and the seller walks away scott free."

yea, right....................."

Now this is ironic and bring back some bade memories. It happened to me. Jacques

Bad memories no doubt.

Would you do business again with this seller?

Would you recommend the seller to another collector, regardless of their accolades and cheek puffing of greatness?

[Mark C. Yerger]

forever

fake is fake

dealers should know more than what the price is or how much profit they make

A "guarantee" is a worthless word to most

[Don D.]

So, how about an item that was considered good at one time by the collector community but over the years has been found to be bad? We've had this happen here. At what time can I be relieved of the responsibility for an item I have honestly sold in good faith?