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**TonyS** · 12-20-2010, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by NTZ View Post

Peter if I were to take a pic of every crap cap at a show I would need to have a 10 gig memory card.

a 16Gb SD card is cheap now......sorry Nick - I couldn't resist

However you might need 10 or even a 100 times that to save photos of all the crappy SS caps out there.

**checkit** · 12-20-2010, 11:26 AM

Every collecting area has the same problem right now. There are skilled craftsmen in China, India, Latvia, Spain, etc. all capable of doing outstanding work.

It is only our good fortune that many of these people are producing detectable fakes.

Rare stamps and art prints are being counterfeited in Hong Kong using the same ultrasophisitcated equipment that some countries use to print their money (engraved plates becoming passe these days).

They are also stamping out rare coins - what could be more illegal than that?

100 times as much "original" Impressionist art exists in museums and private collections than was ever painted by Impressionist artists.

Rare handmade early American quilts and samplers are still handmade today - in China.

The Chinese are getting truly close to replicating Japanese swords and fittings that are undetectible as fakes (I give them another 5 years). I just saw a Chinese-made blade stuck in original Japanese mountings, and sold at auction as original. Which auction house? The one that has been mentioned several times in this same thread.

I have seen vet bringback items that were repros - bought in German flea markets in the 40's and 50's.

Art dealers in ancient times used to peddle fake Egyptian antiques to the Romans.

It isn't going to stop any time soon. If you can't stop Nigerian scams, then you certainly are not going to stop this.

**Naval Enigma** · 12-20-2010, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by checkit View Post

Every collecting area has the same problem right now. There are skilled craftsmen in China, India, Latvia, Spain, etc. all capable of doing outstanding work.

It is only our good fortune that many of these people are producing detectable fakes.

Rare stamps and art prints are being counterfeited in Hong Kong using the same ultrasophisitcated equipment that some countries use to print their money (engraved plates becoming passe these days).

They are also stamping out rare coins - what could be more illegal than that?

100 times as much "original" Impressionist art exists in museums and private collections than was ever painted by Impressionist artists.

Rare handmade early American quilts and samplers are still handmade today - in China.

The Chinese are getting truly close to replicating Japanese swords and fittings that are undetectible as fakes (I give them another 5 years). I just saw a Chinese-made blade stuck in original Japanese mountings, and sold at auction as original. Which auction house? The one that has been mentioned several times in this same thread.

I have seen vet bringback items that were repros - bought in German flea markets in the 40's and 50's.

Art dealers in ancient times used to peddle fake Egyptian antiques to the Romans.

It isn't going to stop any time soon. If you can't stop Nigerian scams, then you certainly are not going to stop this.

I picked up some trinkets during my tour with the Ocatavian Legion. I thought the RZM stamp on that sarcophagus was bogus.

Seriously though, as commented before, you can invest thousands into creating a fake and still make a hefty profit.

I love hearing about the "good ol' days" keep it coming, gentlemen.

**Hundestaffel** · 12-20-2010, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by John Pic View Post

Was that Gordon Mandley? Who sold visors at the Great Western for years? You have to be a real old timer to remember him. I still have his business card someplace.I believe he is dead too.

Johnny:

Your prize, Gordon's hit single "A Lie On My Lips" (with B side cut "Flood The Market") from his (in)famous LP "Burn The Masses" is currently on the way to you via Manions (that's right - I said LP - how's that for being a real old timer !!!)

;-)

"Hundestaffel"

**GOTZVONB** · 12-20-2010, 05:21 PM

Ss kz brown piping visor cap

In 1979, I began to collect WSS militaria, as well as Heer & LW items. A fellow collector that had been collecting since the late 1950's advised me to keep away from SS stuff, as there were too many fakes on the market. I had nothing but respect for this collector's experience & honesty, but I was determined to collect WSS militaria. Since that time, I managed to collect many rare & original SS items of all kinds, but it was a very hard road, and I'll have to admit that I got "burned" more than a few times, mostly with SS cloth insignia. I spent every dime that I could on the best known reference books on the subject, but it still wasn't possible to avoid buying fakes now & then. I still collect SS militaria, but only on a small scale, not like in my heyday when I'd spend nearly every dollar that I could on the hobby. The only advice that I could give anybody that collects SS militaria is to read as many reference books as you can, talk to as many honest & experienced collectors as you can, and when something looks too good to be true, it's probably a fake, so keep your wallet in you pocket & pass on it. I could list a whole bunch of crooks that I came into contact with in the past, but it wouldn't do anybody any good, as there are many more crooks in the hobby that I don't know about. I still remember the advice that I got many, many years ago, that there are a lot of SS fakes on the market, and it really doesn't matter what pedigree is put on an item or what well-known dealer/collector is selling it, if your "gut" feeling tells you that it's a fake, just walk away!!!

Best regards,

Tom

**Johnny R** · 12-20-2010, 06:52 PM

A friend of mine has a lot of older catalogs from the 70s including DG and Diebels uniform lists from the 80s, it would be fun to start a thread with the old items shown. Most the graphics were pretty bad but not all. I am sure some of the lots that Diebel was selling are now 100% original vet bring backs etc. I will try to get some of them and post them.

My fondest memories of the old shows were seeing garment racks of tunics being pushed into shows and tables 4 feet deep in uniform items.

**John Pic** · 12-20-2010, 06:57 PM

Hah, I knew it was him I had almost forgotten about him.

**Naval Enigma** · 12-20-2010, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Johnny R View Post

...My fondest memories of the old shows were seeing garment racks of tunics being pushed into shows and tables 4 feet deep in uniform items...

I'm so jealous

**Johnny R** · 12-20-2010, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Naval Enigma View Post

I'm so jealous

We will start an oldies but goodies thread somewhere else. This is off subject, I enjoy talking about it too but not the place for it.

**John Pen.** · 12-20-2010, 08:31 PM

I like the stories of the olden days too. I don't mind them being posted here(but maybe others do) , I think the stories are relevent.

Here I'll post something incredible that sold at the same auction for about $75,000 or $75k. In this case I think it is an authentic piece. Or maybe a crate with 1,000 of them with Mauser certs. has just arrived from China?

probably not.
Check these out, and weep! Description; "Outstanding Nazi 1939 Mauser Factory Engraved and Gold Plated Presentation Luger Given To The Nazi Ambassador Franz Von Papen By Foreign Minister of The Reich Joachim Von Ribbentrop With Authentication From Mauser Factory Consultant "
link also:http://rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/51/lid/1584
I bet you'd trade some of your nice SS stuff for that!

Attached Files

**John Pen.** · 12-20-2010, 08:34 PM

2 more pics of Lugar............... Whoah!! I don't know what happened with the BLUE, maybe file was too big. Sorry.
Jp
Ya know, when I think about it how could some one buy ANYTHING from these guys if they also sell so much faked and bogus crap, don't reputations matter anymore???

Attached Files

**checkit** · 12-20-2010, 08:42 PM

Compare that with the abvsolutely crappy engraving on the pistol posted earlier in this thread.

**Johnny R** · 12-20-2010, 08:49 PM

The pistol set was very nice, the town I lived in in Germany was the house where he was born and they had some nice personal items in the Stadt Museum. If I remember correctly the coat of arms on the pistol was his families and was in the house as well.

RIA does have some fantastic firearms on there. The VG1.5 was very nice as well. The are primarily an Arms auction house and with that they appear know their stuff especially 19-20th Century American.

**John Pen.** · 12-20-2010, 08:50 PM

Question:
Would you rather have 5 caps like the one in O.P., or the Luger? (same price)
The clock is ticking, Santa wants to know.
Jp

(disclaimer; Santa won't really be bringing any Lugers, the TSA won't let him fly with them)

**Johnny R** · 12-20-2010, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by John Pen. View Post

Question:
Would you rather have 5 caps like the one in O.P., or the Luger? (same price)
The clock is ticking, Santa wants to know.
Jp

(disclaimer; Santa won't really be bringing any Lugers, the TSA won't let him fly with them)

The luger at the drop of a hat. Named items are for me the best. He probably put it in a room with the other 30 thousand gifts he got as a politician and never shot it but it is nice. Someone else thought so as well. I would never put that much dough into a single item like a pistol but if Santa gave it to me I would not mind.

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SS KZ brown piping visor cap $14,000

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