Gruppenfuhrer collar tab

[RUHL13]

Hi Guys, i picked this up yesterday from a friend, i took a chance and it is out of the ordinary i agree, maybe even no good.
What is different is, the unterlagen has a thin copper wrap to it, maybe very early?
My friend got it from a respected collector here which will remain silent for now.
So, my question is, did they ever use copper on early pieces?
Regards,
Gary

[RUHL13]

The back has no buckram backing

[RUHL13]

last pics for now.

[Gary Symonds]

Wow, this is certainly different. Never seen embroidery like this. But looking at the quality and the acorns, which are the first thing I look at, I'd say it is probably good.

[Ian Hulley]

The coated copper wire isn't the 'Unterlagen' that is the cardboard template used to create a relatively uniform design.

Coated copper wire was used in the early 70's fakes, this seems in a totally different league quality wise from those though. The lack of the buckram backing would be a major cause for concern.

Ian.

[RUHL13]

Yes Ian, the lack of buckram backing was also my concern.
Never thought fakers would use copper, would be expensive....i think.
Gary

[Ian Hulley]

Clearly it was cheaper than the real thing back in the late 60's early 70's. I'm not saying your tab is fake just pointing out issues and irregularities to me.

Ian.

[RUHL13]

Thanks Ian, if more pics would help, please let me know.
I just had to take the chance, even if there are some "if's"
Regards,
Gary

[C. Betz]

Collar Tab

I have concerns about the leaves' construction and lack of crisp detail. However, the acorns' construction is far above that encountered with fake representations of this rank tab.

Might it be an early SA tab? Early high rank SA officers' tabs had this type of thick piping.

Charles Betz

[RUHL13]

Close up of the acorns, if they help.

[Ian Hulley]

It's the copper, lack of unterlagen and lack of buckram that bothers me. 'Early' and 'Tailor-made' are often excuses/cover stories for fakes. To be honest if this was cheap I'd be 50/50 as to whether take a gamble on it ... but it would have to be cheap.

Sorry not to be more positive, there are people who will know in a heartbeat though.

Ian

[Felix]

Its a reproduction. Shape of leafes is totally off from known originals. Piping is too thick. It has fake ageing as well. IMHO not for me.

//Felix

[PMan]

Tabs

The coated copper wire isn't the 'Unterlagen' that is the cardboard template used to create a relatively uniform design.

Coated copper wire was used in the early 70's fakes, this seems in a totally different league quality wise from those though. The lack of the buckram backing would be a major cause for concern.

Ian.

The wire is not copper coated. The wire is copper and is silver plated. The embroidery is all silver plate as is the piping. The design is unique, that's for sure. I have never seen another of this quality.

[RUHL13]

Back at this again
As for SA, it is smaller then my Obergruppenfuhrer greatcoat collar tab, but matches almost perfect with my Allgemeine greatcoat collar tabs.
Passes the black light test, no glow, i know it's just a tool to help, but wouldn't a 60's or 70's fake glow almost always?
Felix....where do you see "artificial" aging?
I think your seeing lint on the felt.
Sorry, but my camera can only do so much, maybe direct sunlight?
Most agree, the quality is there, but with some "if's".
Peter mentioned silver plate, it is possible i would guess.
Didn't early tabs have thick piping?
I am far the expert

[Ian Hulley]

The wire is not copper coated.

Peter I said "the coated copper wire" ... i.e. copper wire that is coated or plated.

Ian