SS Police Tunic

[vonStubben]

Charles,

I think you are doing exactly the right thing by asking good questions before removing the insignia.

I think the tunic is possibly an earlier police tunic but before I comment I would like to see some photos of the interior, exterior back, and interior of the collar. Any markings at all?

Here is a collage of the outside and inside of the tunic. Let me know if this helps.

[vonStubben]

There is a very faint size and makers mark on the upper inside left of the tunic. It does not photograph well but I can make out:

?? 94

???????

98 Munster 92

[NickG]

The color is definately that of OrPo and not Zoll. The color of the tunic is proper for police clothing.

OK agreed! OrPo it is, looking at the day light pictures absolutely no doubt. Polizei green!

Its strange that it lacks the brown collar and cuffs for such a "Rock cut" tunic ...
and if the SS eagle and breast flashes are both original to the piece, these are officer quality bullion insignia
(SS flashes on fieldgray btw) and the collar tabs are enlisted types...

Are the "ghosts" of the insignia on the collar for sure "enlisted" size? That's a mis-match...
I have no doubt that its a period tunic...perhaps modified for field use by replacing the brown facings...or it predates that? (Weimar?)
SS Polizei Division? Its a mystery but no doubt pre 1945!

[SCHUPO]

Charles,

Your tunic is a pre-war police tunic, probably late Weimar Republic Zeit or perhaps an early Landespolizei tunic that certainly pre-dates the standardized 1936 tunics. These old tunics often continued in use in police schools but I have not seen any photos showing that they were worn by the SS-Pol Diviision. They were well out of date and regulation by that time.

So, it looks like an original early police tunic with later applied insignia. If the SS insignia is not original I would not have a probem removing it. If it is original it is difficult to say when it was put on the tunic but the tunic certainly pre-dates the SS-Polizei Division.

[vonStubben]

Charles,

Your tunic is a pre-war police tunic, probably late Weimar Republic Zeit or perhaps an early Landespolizei tunic that certainly pre-dates the standardized 1936 tunics. These old tunics often continued in use in police schools but I have not seen any photos showing that they were worn by the SS-Pol Diviision. They were well out of date and regulation by that time.

So, it looks like an original early police tunic with later applied insignia. If the SS insignia is not original I would not have a probem removing it. If it is original it is difficult to say when it was put on the tunic but the tunic certainly pre-dates the SS-Polizei Division.

So now, given this information, the $64.00 question is, IS the insignia original? The sleeve eagle is not German made but could be Belgian, Dutch, Latvian, or Estonian manufactured,.....or it could be an outright fake (if anyone has an outright fake of this exact type then please post it and tell us where it was obtained).

The pocket runes certainly appear (to me) to be of period manufacture as the sliver aluminium thread is absolutely proper and has nice age to it. The patch has settled onto the tunic nicely and the thread used in the application of both the eagle AND the runic patch are period given their twist and their fibre type.

Although an earlier tunic we do know that most everything was worn during the war so it is not impossible that this tunic saw service between 1939 and 1945, especially given it's overall wear, as it has been worn hard.

Since I have someone who has actually seen the tunic and wants to trade for it, what would the members here think in percentages regarding real verses fake? 20%, 50%, 60%???

[Johnny R]

I would start a new thread just for the eagle and rune patch.

[NickG]

The score as I see it:
100% real tunic, pre TR polizei (Weimar as I suspected) and could have been a carry-over TR piece,
no problem there!

and the breast flashes appear to be real as well (unterlagen?) , but not backed on Polizei wool
(appears to be field gray)
and the bullion eagle I can't judge... so 2 out of 3

Its worth its value in the parts at this point because of the mis-match in components...
(Reason: ghosts of enlisted Pol tabs + officer quality SS eagle? + SS breast flashes on a Weimar era ("carry-over"?) tunic is a stretch...SS polizei Division very unlikely at this point)

[Arran]

If there's no cardboard underlay on the eagle, its a fake. This pattern of eagle, often referred to as 'Belgian made', is just an earlier form of the German made eagles and must have an unterlagen. The runes should, too, for that matter...

[MaxxBrunn1938]

I'm supriced no one has mentioned this... If the Dealer was stripping it so it didn't offend the Jewish nieghbors .. Why did she remove the simple Police tabs and not the 2 other so called Offending insignias?

Something here is not right.

Joe

[vonStubben]

I'm supriced no one has mentioned this... If the Dealer was stripping it so it didn't offend the Jewish nieghbors .. Why did she remove the simple Police tabs and not the 2 other so called Offending insignias?

Something here is not right.

Joe

Because,.................as I have said, she had JUST begun removing the insignia and had not gotten around to stripping it completely.

Quite simple really!

Also, regarding unterlagen, I can't see whether there is any paper backing on these or not as they are sewn quite tightly to the tunic and I am not going to cut or remove any thread to find out.

Chuck

[Ian Hulley]

You don't need to .... you can carefully tweeze the bullion apart (easiest in the wing area) and see the underlaying card template.

No template no good.

Ian.

[Bobwirtz]

Wouldn't these tunics have the POLICE styled sleeve eagles on them, and not the SS? Especially if it was pre-TR period?

Bob

[Ian Hulley]

Wouldn't these tunics have the POLICE styled sleeve eagles on them, and not the SS? Especially if it was pre-TR period?

Bob

Yep and when the imho pos SS eagle is removed there'll likely be the shadow of the disc from the real eagle ... even if a light brushing is required to show it.

Ian

[vonStubben]

You don't need to .... you can carefully tweeze the bullion apart (easiest in the wing area) and see the underlaying card template.

No template no good.

Ian.

I gently spread the bullion wires on both insignia and both have cardboard unterlagen.

So now, what's the verdict??

Chuck

[vonStubben]

Yep and when the imho pos SS eagle is removed there'll likely be the shadow of the disc from the real eagle ... even if a light brushing is required to show it.

Ian

There is absolutely, unequivocably, NO trace or any shadow of a round police eagle patch on the left sleeve.