SS evening dress Broach

[John Pepera]

Threats of the ultimate exposure and extermination.

Here in my area, brothers kill brothers for a roll of toilet paper.
(of course, I mean 'the brothers')

[Gary Wood]

This thread is now pinned to the top of the forum

[Craig Gottlieb]

Who the heck can you trust anymore? If guys with a good reputation are giving their ok's willy-nilly and then disappear when the alarming facts come to light - what hope has this hobby got?

With respect, Max, that is exactly the opposite lesson than should be learned here. What WE did (myself included) was buy purely based upon faith. I know for a fact that most people who bought these didn't bother to look carefully at them, because we trusted the source. I do this ALL the time with a number of dealers and do not suffer ... and neither do the collectors who buy from me. I buy site unseen, or "willy nilly" as you say, sometimes. If Bob Hritz, for example, calls me, describes a piece I can use, I TRUST him, and do in fact buy "willy nilly." This was certainly a first for most of us.

What is good about this whole process, is that it took about 24 hours for the cracks to begin to surface in this whole thing, and the end result is that the system DID work ... no collector got hurt.

[Craig Gottlieb]

And bravo for pinning this. It should be "required reading" for everyone.

[blitzkrieg gsd]

With respect, Max, that is exactly the opposite lesson than should be learned here. What WE did (myself included) was buy purely based upon faith. I know for a fact that most people who bought these didn't bother to look carefully at them, because we trusted the source. I do this ALL the time with a number of dealers and do not suffer ... and neither do the collectors who buy from me. I buy site unseen, or "willy nilly" as you say, sometimes. If Bob Hritz, for example, calls me, describes a piece I can use, I TRUST him, and do in fact buy "willy nilly." This was certainly a first for most of us.

What is good about this whole process, is that it took about 24 hours for the cracks to begin to surface in this whole thing, and the end result is that the system DID work ... no collector got hurt.

No one got hurt is that what im reading? Was everyone money returned even yours? If so i missed that post and amm sorry i did. So if all the money was returned thats great but if not then alot of people got hurt. Buying willy nilly as you guys said is a thing of the past guys no matter whos selling. I think that has been proven with all the storys of people being burned even the big boy dealers and experts. This is all starting to get out of hand people being ripped off and acting like its no big deal. It is a big deal and something needs to be done about this.

My opinion is we need to start by banning dealers or collectors who have been proven cons. Cause its are own fault that we all know who the crooks are and we let them set up at shows and sell on this forum. Just because a guy pays his money to rent a table or join a site to sell doesnt mean we should allow it. The collectors that end up getting hurt the worse is the new guys who dont know who the crooks are. Then they get so mad that they say im over it and start to collect baseball cards. And we need these new guys to keep the hobby going. Its bad to say but its true and im going to say it again. Most of the old timers are not going to be with us anouther 20yrs. So who do we plan on buying this stuff then where will it go? Theres not enough museums in the world for it. The PC crowd will have a burning party if they get there hands on it. There has been to much hard work time and money and passion to let this go on. Its time guys to stand up and say enough is enough and we are not going to put up with this stuff anymore its over.

[Max Wünsche]

I think you will find that even though the WAF can hold sway and indeed screw with a dealers clientele with informative threads such as these.....I cannot see how anyone can in fact be put out of business totally if caught out... Other than god stepping in and casting his own sweet justice!

There are many collectors who wouldnt have a clue about the WAF, and so will still continue to deal with these guys...

Great that you pinned this one Gary, all too often these threads go MIA.

[Vid]

Also curious how he was able to take that amount of cash out of the country without problems unless he declared it.......

This is far from a couple of hobbyist's trading collar tabs or Iron Cross'

I think there are a couple ways to do this, was not stuffing it in his socks and the guy who walks all those badges that he has held quietly for months into the show already had that figured out. That was a loaded deck and he would certainly have a way to get the money back out.

[Vid]

I might suspect there was a behind the curtain deal going on where these were going to be pushed as "variants" by some dealers...but some real collectors caught the act in progress and the whole thing was burned....we have seen other supposed variants brought "out of the woodwork" by dealers in the past and with a cadre' of their protectors giving credence. Its a conspiracy theory I know but ....???<!-- / message -->

You can never really rule this out, of course plopping a 100 of them into the largest show in the country in one shot would make me wonder if its smart enough to be a conspiracy, rather than one lone stupid person.

It looked like there was going to be a reach to try and legitimize them. Cant count that out.

Kris

[John Pic]

Well its never a real smart conspiracy but as you say a reach...is a better term and I agree Ive watched many reaches over the past ten years but none with the turnaround this one has.

[Gary Wood]

of course plopping a 100 of them into the largest show in the country in one shot would make me wonder

Do we know how many were sold at the show in total?


And here is the link to the other thread regarding this episode

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=583316

[Vid]

Do we know how many were sold at the show in total?


And here is the link to the other thread regarding this episode

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=583316

Gary,

I have been trying to pin down numbers here and while most are multi-sourced many differ. The only universal number by all accounts and from all persons that I have talked to is 100. I am probably low on my sales numbers and priced realized but that one looks solid.

Best,

Kris

[SScollector]

Supposedly, this is where Kai Winkler was last spotted.

[John Pepera]

'The Great Escape'

Outta Louisville via the great Mississippi.

[BrianK]

Maybe I just don't get it, but I've read all 33 pages and still can't tell a real tux badge from a fake. So now I have to sympathize with those dealers who got burned. These along with the anti-partisan badge have to be the ugliest SS items around. Just the right accessories for a biker. But can someone explain the difference between real and fake so it's understandable - other than "Do your homework", or "When you've had enough of these in hand you can tell the difference"?

[Felix]

Maybe I just don't get it, but I've read all 33 pages and still can't tell a real tux badge from a fake. So now I have to sympathize with those dealers who got burned. These along with the anti-partisan badge have to be the ugliest SS items around. Just the right accessories for a biker. But can someone explain the difference between real and fake so it's understandable - other than "Do your homework", or "When you've had enough of these in hand you can tell the difference"?

This is the best information given in writing and pictures so far, that I know of, ever done about a rare thing like the Tux badge. It does not get much better than this. That is why the thread has been pinned.

The next stage for the student is to try study an original and then the pictures will tell you more and what has been clarified here.

I know you hate the words "do your homework" but when collecting SS it is really what it is about. If you count the thousands of hours some members has spent to get to their level of knowledge and skills you would be shocked. It is sad but true, but there is little space for a "non-professor" when it comes to these kind of items provided you want to be sure what you collect and buy. That goes actually for a lot of items such as knights crosses and other high end items. The more costly, usually the more knowledge you need as a general rule. Ok, you might get the friendly help of a collector with the right knowledge, but that requires a good network.

If it is an ugly badge is a matter of a personal opinion. I find the Tux badge partly uninteresting as it is so rare. I like the more classic icons often seen in war time photos. But to call it ugly, no way! It is a piece of glorification art that sums up a lot about third reich and SS. Grandiose Nazi fetish art at its best!

Cheers
//Felix