Candleholder from SS Officer

[Ron C.]

I got this sometime around 1974-1975 from a friend I made in Germany. He was Werner Schroder, a former Waffen SS Hauptsturmfuhrer. I got several items from him that he searched out from other people. None of the things he brought me where ever very expensive, he just sort of took a liking to me. He even invited me to go to HIAG meetings, but I was never able to go....couldn't get free. He just called it a candeholder that "we used during the holiday season". It may sound stupid, but, at that time I had never heard of a Juleluechter, and thought nothing of it. I think he sold it to me for about $5......I brought it as a candleholder that I thought was sort of neat......and used it as a candleholder during the holidays! A few weeks later I found another just like it at the Frankfurt fleamarket, and bought it for 5DM......so now I had a pair of candleholders to use during the holidays. I heard of Juleluechters sometime after I came home in 1976, but still used them as Germanic looking candleholders. I have seen some of the ones that have been displayed on the forum, but, although mine look like a similar design, mine do not have any of the marks they have as far as I can see. What are the ones I have? Were there such things as these that were made just as candleholders or what? They are packed away, so I cannot get to them to take better pictures, since I have recently had a mild stroke and am not recovered enough yet to dig things out; however, I did follow my doctors' instructions and my family's wishes and have retired..........so maybe I will be able to do so later.

Thanks,
Ron



Here are some photos of Werner that he gave me, that is him on the bicycle.

[Ron C.]

I did find these other photos. Shots of the bottoms of both, and a shot of the other candleholder I think. I see no marks on either like on the ones posted on the forum.

Ron

[Michael Fay]

Hello Ron,
is there a chance this Jul-Leuchter was painted or coated over?
It kind of looks like it.
there might even be markings under the coating....maybe.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that not all originals had the "Kulturzeichen" mark on bottom...but cannot remember for sure.

What I do like is that 1974-75 seems like way before the fakes made to fool. After all...not to many collectors wanted such esoteric SS stuff back then to make it worth it, as far as I can surmise.

But I do know versions were made after war in 50s and 60s for those who might want them ( SS vets).
Even if that is the case...a later version of Jul-Leuchter from an SS vet and/or from 1975 era would be nice to have.

[Ron C.]

Hello Ron,
is there a chance this Jul-Leuchter was painted or coated over?
It kind of looks like it.
there might even be markings under the coating....maybe.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that not all originals had the "Kulturzeichen" mark on bottom...but cannot remember for sure.

What I do like is that 1974-75 seems like way before the fakes made to fool. After all...not to many collectors wanted such esoteric SS stuff back then to make it worth it, as far as I can surmise.

But I do know versions were made after war in 50s and 60s for those who might want them ( SS vets).
Even if that is the case...a later version of Jul-Leuchter from an SS vet and/or from 1975 era would be nice to have.

Michael,

I never really thought about that. I think it was coated or dipped. Near the top of the last one you can see a "run" in the paint or whatever........I wouldn't see have the clay or whatever it is could run like that. I also can see by the "scratches" or whatever on the bottom, it is a different color underneath. I couldn't however see any indentation in the coating that looked like there was a marking under it, and don't know why they both would be coated or painted like that.........just assumed they were some kind of rustic looking Germanic candleholders..........and I certainly never paid much, likely about $7.50 in both......just used candleholders. Of course Werner was a former SS officer, but he didn't say it had been his, but i just thought it was rather one he got from some friend or acqaintance. He did have his honor ring. He showed up to me. I never asked him about buying it, and he didn't offer it. Frankly, I don't think he would have sold it, and didn't want to drive him away by trying to buy it. He was captured by the Russians and saved the ring from them by sewing it in the bottom of his breeches. They took his riding boots, but didn't check the bottom of his breeches. He managed to escape, and somehow made it to the U.S. lines to surrender there. He was convicted after the war as being a member of a criminal outfit, and spent 5 years in prison before being released to come home, but brought his ring with him..........so, going through that I didn't want to offend him by trying to buy it.

Thanks for the response! It gives me something to ponder.

Ron

[Ron C.]

Michael,

I was just wondering after what you said, did HIAG ever pass out favors, maybe something like this, at their meetings or reunions?

Ron

[Michael Fay]

thoughts on coatings

Ron,
a few more thoughts on coatings.
a coating would almost assuredly have been simply a protective measure, after all they are clay and can deteriorate over time from weather,etc.
It makes perfect sense that your friend(or another old SS vet-or related Sippe-SS family) would have put on a coating, after all it is just us collectors who demand pristine items. Someone from the old days would care more about utilitarianism.
Also with a protective coating, the Haus Frau could have washed off the dust with water even, perhaps.

MF

[Michael Fay]

Michael,

I was just wondering after what you said, did HIAG ever pass out favors, maybe something like this, at their meetings or reunions?

Ron

I have no idea.
I believe waf member Mark Yerger might know.If he reads this , maybe he can say.
What i do know is my 50's and 60's magazines for SS vets called "DER FREIWILLIGE" has ads in them offering various Jul-Leuchters for sale.
Some looking like the originals and some looking a bit less like the originals.

[JoeW]

Michael, from your readings, how many candles were used in the Julleuchter? Was it one on the top, then one inside on the new year evening? Thanks.

[Michael Fay]

Michael, from your readings, how many candles were used in the Julleuchter? Was it one on the top, then one inside on the new year evening? Thanks.

Hello Joe,

I believe Weitzel makes mention of 2 for the Jul-Leuchter. sometimes the one on top...sometimes another below...and a relationship between the 2 at specific times like the end of the old and the new year. Symbolic of cycles
If you think about it the holder was utilitarianistic as a wind break for a candle underneath...
which must have been why it was created in the ancient times...(I mean the version as shown by Dr. Wirth in his books that Himmler then adopted) it has the elegant function of protecting the candle whilst displaying Ur-Zeit archaic culturally important designs...of which Dr. Wirth claimed were from the Ur-Aryans .

You know it was for this when you imagine the effect of a flickering candle casting shapes and shadows from within the clay covering.

Years ago a pagan site had a beautiful and erudite explication of this from their point of referance...sadly I can not find my print out of it and of course, the site is long gone.

Oh yes...another thing is I have seen some Jul-Leuchters with evidence of heavy soot on the inside of them, showing someone had indeed had a burning candle placed within it.

[Michael Fay]

Korrection

Hello Joe,
I was just looking through the translated SS Family and as far as I can find Weitzel never actually stipulates placing a candle underneath the clay holder. He does mention the use of 2 candles but only as recieving the flame from the (year long used) old and almost spent guttering candle to then replace said old candle.
So the under the holder use was posited by pagan enthusiasts in the 90's but I did not find that Weitzel concurred. Though it is not a leap to envison the old candle being set under the holder after being replaced.....
And as I said before, I have seen evidence that candles left soot underneath.
So...it is another aspect of SS Kultur that is still in need of further research.

[JoeW]

I read the candle commentary in the Weitzel work (translated) and was confused. That is why I asked if you knew of any definitive answer. Only one candle was provided with the leuchter. Is there any mention of number of candles in the printed page accompanying the candle?

[Michael Fay]

Jul Kurze Brief

I read the candle commentary in the Weitzel work (translated) and was confused. That is why I asked if you knew of any definitive answer. Only one candle was provided with the leuchter. Is there any mention of number of candles in the printed page accompanying the candle?

Yes, I have read that paragraph a hundred times...it is vague and convoluted.
As for your next question, It took me awhile to realize you meant the SS JulKurze candle and box...

So to the letter with the box:

No, the letter makes no mention of another candle.
To complicate things further...I happen to have two different years candle letters...and please understand that they have very different messages.
So while neither of these messages mention another candle, the possibility that another year's letter did, is a possibility.
I doubt it though--as the letters seem not geared for any instructional use and more inspirational slogans, but it is still a possibility, of course.

One implication of the box...this one I have was sent in the mail to the SS man.
It was sent with the postage and address on the box...so it did not come WITH the Jul-Leuchter.
This leads me to suppose he already had one and was sent a new one yearly--if he was on a prearranged list or if he sent away for it each year I do not know for certain...but I theorize he was on a pre-arranged mailing list especially as "euch" is I sent "you all" the Jul candle.
MF

[Capt. R]

May I ask which page and para you are ref. to in the Family Celebration translation?

I see reference to a "small" candle and a "large" candle on page 37. Implication is that the old candle has burned down and become a "small" candle which is allowed to burn down and then is replaced with the new candle for the coming year. Also, one could take as a meaning that the small candle is inside the julleuchter and then the long one is placed on top and lit when the new year arrives. I had always thought a light was placed under the julleuchter. The translation as a "Yule Lantern" led me to believe that a light was certainly placed under/INSIDE the holder - because that is what a lantern does, operating sort of like our jack o'lantern. And as Michael said, would cast thoughtful shadows around the room from the folk cutouts. No doubt creating a close-knit bonding and also a pleasant family light. I will need to consult some other references and see what I come up with. I hope others comment here, esp. those people with the native knowledge.

[Capt. R]

Julleuchter lit from inside as depicted in Dutch leithefte

OK, I just studied the pic from the SS Germ. Leithefte and it clearly shows the julleuchter lit from underneath!

I include a pic with and without the flash for comparison. You can see the glow through the holes and bouncing off the opposite wall inside!!

What do you all think?? Can someone translate the Dutch???







AND, here is the back inside cover of the exact same issue with a historical julleuchter....

[Michael Fay]

May I ask which page and para you are ref. to in the Family Celebration translation?. .

I am referencing P.34 :4th para in the Ulric/Barger translation.
There seem to be many pages on candles.

Anyway your photos do seem to confirm lighting placed within.
MF