W-SS Cut-Off Insignia/Buyer Beware

[Serge M.]

Looks like the thread is into the actual skull body.
I hope it won't won't have speckles of "glow" once the offending thread is removed.

Regards,
-wagner-

[Massimo F.]

when I see this kind of behavior I really feel depressed... Seeing where this hobby is heading because of the demanding prices and the greed of some individuals in the business makes me think of quitting collecting for real... seriously, instead of spending time researching history behind the stuff we collect.. we spend most of the time trying to avoid fakes and get stung...

[SgtB]

The stitching overkill on those two pieces is a giveaway. Sort of reminds me of the LW 'panzer beret' seen recently....

Same here.

[Willi Z.]

Is the culprit a forum member?

[Robert H]

[Glenn McInnes]

Is the culprit a forum member?

Yes it is.

I know for certain that he bought the M43 hat with no insignia from a dealer. I also know he bought the W-SS insignia from the Estand and had them re-sewn to this hat.

However,the one thing that I can't say for certain is that I don't know if he cut the insignia off the hat (I suspect he did) after he found out it was fake and could not return the hat to the dealer because he tore the hat apart to apply the insignia..

I know he had the hat for sale at some shows so perhaps it was sold and the buyer found out the hat was bad and cut the insignia off and sold them to the dealer.

If anyone knows the dealer who has these for sale (Karl K),maybe you can ask him who sold or traded him the cut off insignia...That would seal it for me.



Glenn

[johnm50]

If anyone knows the dealer who has these for sale (Karl K),maybe you can ask him who sold or traded him the cut off insignia...That would seal it for me.



Glenn

That would seal it if the guy who bought the insignia of the e-stand was the same as the one who sold it to the dealer


Best
John

[hmsbrinmaric]

Hi Everyone,

I have been in contact with Karl and informed him of this thread. He immediately removed the set from sale. He has posted a message on his site in regard to this.

He did not elaborate any other information about the pieces to me. He asked me to thank you for letting him know and asked me to post this on his behalf ask he is not registered on the forum.


Keith

[Mike Bollow]

Here's the full story behind this insignia. I am sorry to tell you it is not as evil as people have speculated!

1) I bought a stripped WSS M43 cap from the Collector's Guild. We all know they have a very good rep.

2) I bought cut-off original WSS cap insignia from the e-stand.

3) I had a tailor restore the original insignia to the original cap for MY COLLECTION. I have always wanted one of these. It was not for re-sale.

I had about 2 seconds of happiness with my restored piece until people from the forum started poo-poo'ing the cap. All I heard was "Collector's Guild sold you a fake, now you are stuck with it! What a waste of money! You are so stupid!"

Then I found myself very depressed. I still liked the cap and I knew the insignia was good, but the magic was gone now. When somebody tells you your piece is bad, that sticks in your mind wether you believe it or not and ruins the magic for you. I decided to recoup my money and sell it for what I had into it OFF the e-stand. The price accordingly was WAY below what an all-original cap would have sold for. I still agreed with Collector's Guild that the cap was good.

Then it comes up again and gets poo-poo'ed... so in disgust (after a few too many beers) I simply cut off the insignia and put it in a case. I thought I could get some enjoyment out of it in THIS fashion but looking at it made me feel so sick about the cap (that many thought was real) that I decided to ask Karl if he had any interest in it. The price he was going to get it for was MUCH less than I had into the project and less than he had it listed for on his site.

Karl and I talked about it and he may send it back to me, which I have no problem with. If I ever sell the insignia it will be carefully removed from the cap wool and be just as I bought it from the e-stand.

In summary: I took a bath on this one. I thought I could restore a nice Collector's Guild cap for myself and wound up depressed and out a LOT of money.

I didn't post this for sale on the e-stand. I didn't even sell it to Karl for a penny more than the raw insignia was worth (off the wool).

I didn't do anything wrong here, and I am now so scared of WSS items that I'll never touch one again.

Mike

[Glenn McInnes]

Of course you never tried to sell it on Estand as you bought the insignia there,maybe out of fear that someone might just recognize it,then you would have to mention that you cut up a hat after you had the insignia sewn on. Some may think you foolish.


Also interesting that in Karl's description that there was no mention of it being post war sewn then cut off. So either you never told him or he failed to mention it.

And of course you were trying to sell it outside of the Forum.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=322335




This sort of nonsense pains me to no end!



Glenn

[Mike Bollow]

Glenn -

When I tried to sell it off the e-stand I still agreed with the Collector's Guild that it was a real hat, and we know the insignia was real, and the price was correct for a cap that had re-applied insignia. Where's the wrong-doing in that?

Karl and I talked about the whole saga before I sent it to him for his inspection. I am in the clear.

I saw Karl's description and he didn't say "vet pick up" or something like that, and then he pulled it right away. I am not his defense attorney but guys get all over dealers that DON'T pull an item after it gets criticized here, and when they DO I think they should get some credit.

Either way... that wasn't MY sale.

Mike

[tropenmilitaria]

Karl added to the description of the item saying "Removed! I have found these items to not be 100% original!!!" It seems like he didn't the whole truth about these?

[Glenn McInnes]

Glenn -

When I tried to sell it off the e-stand I still agreed with the Collector's Guild that it was a real hat, and we know the insignia was real, and the price was correct for a cap that had re-applied insignia. Where's the wrong-doing in that?

Karl and I talked about the whole saga before I sent it to him for his inspection. I am in the clear.

I saw Karl's description and he didn't say "vet pick up" or something like that, and then he pulled it right away. I am not his defense attorney but guys get all over dealers that DON'T pull an item after it gets criticized here, and when they DO I think they should get some credit.

Either way... that wasn't MY sale.

Mike

To be perfectly honest Mike...I don't consider you "worthy" of a reply.


Let's see if Karl,in his own words knew about the restoration before you sold them to him.




Glenn

[Serge M.]

I was just getting interested in vet cut off's by this one piece that was given to me by the vets son after I had purchased some daggers.....
When I saw this tread I said "Hey this looks like mine". Just quickly jumped in to see what you guys would say about it. Thanks Mike.

However after going through all the twists and turns here my head is spinning and I know I will stay away from cloth.
How did the dealer who handels many cuff-offs and m-43's not know that it was bad? He removed it from his site. Oh, I see that all the time with daggers. They didn't know it and say ..Thanks
All I know is that I would get slaughtered in this side of the hobby. I would only trust something that came the way my first piece did.

There is only one thing to keep in mind for those in the business/hobby of 3rd Reich militaria: "You are either part of the problem, or part of the solution".

Regards,
-wagner-

[Mike Bollow]

Sorry Glenn... if you have a private bone to pick with me unrelated to this, let's keep it UNRELATED to this. Fair is fair. I thought I answered your questions but I'll try and do a better job:

1) Of course you never tried to sell it on Estand as you bought the insignia there,maybe out of fear that someone might just recognize it,then you would have to mention that you cut up a hat after you had the insignia sewn on. Some may think you foolish.

I thought in MY opinion that cap was real, but it had been poo-poo'ed here so of course I wasn't going to try and sell an item on the e-stand that has been frowned on by the WAF. Who would? I have sold LOTS of items on the e-stand, and all are 100% and all my buyers are happy people. I am not a professional dealer, just a collector that sells some things to pay for others. I think the majority of us do that.


2) Also interesting that in Karl's description that there was no mention of it being post war sewn then cut off. So either you never told him or he failed to mention it.

I told Karl the whole saga before it was sent to him for his inspection. I have nothing to do with his business, his sales or what he says in his website.

3) And of course you were trying to sell it outside of the Forum.

Yes - as I said in item #1 I still felt at that time that the Collector's Guild was right and the cap was real.

I hope that is a better job of answering your questions.

Mike