SS Officer belt Opinions

[Ric Ferrari]

....I also believe and have some good evidence in the form of a few examples that I have seen and in some cases own/owned that had rock solid provonance, that such 2 claw open buckle SS officer marked belts existed during the 3rd Reich period......

Hello,

I did never say that belts with open claw buckles were not issued to SS : I said the SS markings showed in this thread are not original.

Best

Ric

[Bobwirtz]

I have run across many pieces of leather goods marked with SS runes and even Totenkopfs, but I don't believe any of them. I believe the SS got it's field gear primarily from Army stockpiles and depots and they weren't SS-marked. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

Bob

[phild]

I have run across many pieces of leather goods marked with SS runes and even Totenkopfs, but I don't believe any of them. I believe the SS got it's field gear primarily from Army stockpiles and depots and they weren't SS-marked. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

Bob

Bob,

I think that the above is a very sweeping conclusion and it would take a couple of chapters in a book to properly address it.

I will say here that the question of if the SS (General, VT, TV and W-SS) used, procured and contracted various leather,metal, canvas and wooden equipment that was formally marked with SS runes, SS control numbers and somtimes TKs is not a question or doubt but rather a positive fact. Trying to sort out which of these markings as they are encountered today are pre or post 1945 is another matter...at least for me.

I agree with you to the extent that during the war years most SS used equipment came from the Heer contracts and was not SS marked unless done by a unit or SS repair facility.

A lot of SS officer contracted items, mainly uniform related like belts and boots were not in the above category as they were not contracted by the Heer nor issue but rather contracted by the SS for re-sale to SS officers. I tend to think that these items were not specifically SS/RZM marked after 1942.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Rather than quoting several threads ...

There was indeed ONE maker who officially received in 1943 an order from the RZM to produce open claw belts to be delivered to SS officers. This production is RZM/SS marked but:
- This production was made in 1943 and NOT before and/or after.
- Open claws buckles used for all this production were the same: Made by Assmann, marked with his apropriate RZM contract and of political style (rounded body - NOT the flat Heer style shown here).

By 1938 open claws belts were not allowed by the SS to be produced (and so no order was made to the RZM to supply them)

This 39/xx marking is a well known fantasy marking. It can be found on several leather goods, most been post war produced. The #39 was indeed issued but to a maker of metalic goods (like SS canteens). This maker never produced leather goods which were another categorie.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

I have for me and as far as I am concerned PROOF that these were made and marked for SS officer use

I would be delighted to know which is this proof. Could you share it?

TIA

[phild]

I would be delighted to know which is this proof. Could you share it?

TIA

For me it's simple. I have one that is SS and RZM marked that I obtained a number of years ago from a vet's family. Without going into some long story about who they were, where they were and the state that I found a cache of items that the vet took off the body of the same KIA SS officer...I know that all of the items that I got in that lot were untouched orginals just as the vet had taken them.

Even if that belt had been made out of blue gator hide that lot is so rightous that I would have to add blue gator hide as a variation SS belt material!

I have also examined one other one about 20 years ago that came from a collection that was built in the 1960's and the owner had died in the early 70s....I did not buy that example because I was dumb and believed the "books" and the "experts". There is no doubt in mind looking back that that example was also original.

3rd case- I have another example that I obtained 25 years ago indirect from a vet about 2 weeks after a close friend of mine obtained it direct form the vet....it is 1000% original. This one is NOT SS or Rzm marked, however it is with the rounded buckle (NON-Heer or LW) and the belt is Rbn marked very clearly and very original. In other words it is a contracted officer's belt in this case fairly late war. It is not "party" or Heer or LW or police. It is also indentical to the vet acquired SS-RZM example that I first mentioned in terms of contruction and buckle design....again this desgin is WELL documented in a number of wartime photos of W-SS officers.

You mention the Assman contract 1943 for SS open double claw belts/buckles and I appreciate that as it is the 1st acknolgement of the offical existance of this style SS belt I have ever heard other than myself. My question is this: can you say for sure that this was the only such contract? Was it at least one and perhaps the only one that you can document and could there have been others? It seems odd to me that there was only one.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

For me it's simple. I have one that is SS and RZM marked that I obtained a number of years ago from a vet's family

Can I ask what is the marking on this one? I do not need anything else but only this information.

This one is NOT SS or Rzm marked, however it is with the rounded buckle (NON-Heer or LW) and the belt is Rbn marked very clearly and very original. In other words it is a contracted officer's belt in this case fairly late war. It is not "party" or Heer or LW or police. It is also indentical to the vet acquired SS-RZM example that I first mentioned in terms of contruction and buckle design....again this desgin is WELL documented in a number of wartime photos of W-SS officers

This is absolutely correct. The RZM/SS marked open claws belts made in 1943 are exactly like this with the only difference been in the marking: no Rbn # but instead a RZM/SS contract. So it should match your vet acquired SS-RZM example.
Of course on a wartime photo nobody will be able to say if the shown open claws belt is RZM/SS marked or not. The majority of open claws belts used by SS officers were indeed non RZM/SS marked and many were coming from the NSKK. Except for (at least) one serie made in 1943.

You mention the Assman contract 1943 for SS open double claw belts/buckles and I appreciate that as it is the 1st acknolgement of the offical existance of this style SS belt I have ever heard other than myself.

No, you read me wrong. I did not say Assmann produced those belts. Assmann was a buckle / fittings maker, not a belt maker. I said that the belt maker (the maker who stamped the belts in 1943 with his RZM/SS contract number) did use Assmann open claws buckles for all his belts.

My question is this: can you say for sure that this was the only such contract? Was it at least one and perhaps the only one that you can document and could there have been others? It seems odd to me that there was only one.

Maybe there was some others but it is the only one I recorded in many years. Always the same.