1st pattern Jawless cap skull thread

[Robin Lumsden]

thanks for all your opinions, any idea as to the value please, best regards, mark

Well, that's a moot point.

You can get them on eBay for £20 GBP (if you look hard enough), but the big dealers can charge over £100 GBP for them.

I think £60 GBP is probably realistic.

[RobertE]

Metal jawless TK skull in the issue packet?

Folks, has anyone seen an Assmann-marked cellophane bag with unmarked silvered TK skulls before? The skull is unmarked - does anyone have one in the packet?

[RobertE]

Reverse -

[Vid]

The packets can be found with fake items, I dont know about this skull but I have seen the packets with new/repro items such as small flag finials and such.

[Donald Abenheim]

Assmann advert

The Assmann nomenclature on this little Tuete is reverse engineered from an Assmann advert from the Handbuch d RZM reprinted in the laudable CL Davis volume of three decades ago. That is, the fakers seem to have lifted the image from this wonderful reference work by a leading light in the field. See p. 69 of same... sapere aude.

[derek]

For those interested in the German graphic design field of the period this illustration was done by the superb poster designer Ludwig Hohlwein.
Derek

[bwanek1]

One clue to the authenticity of this pair is that the bag lists the RZM number and the skull which supposedly came from it predates the use of said number.

[RobertE]

All good observations, gentlemen, thanks. I like the side discussion of the graphic art - it's a nicely executed work, anyway.

[Donald Abenheim]

Hohlwein

One of the joys of Google resides in the fact that one can see many examples of this Bavarian's wonderful art at little effort. The commercial art of the era was superb, overall. Sometimes the various German commercial art magazines of the era come up for sale, and they are remarkable things in themselves. Viel Sammlerglueck.

[John T]

You will also find fake "mini" flag pole tops in these same packets.

Johnny

[John T]

ps...and that blue gunk on the skull looks like dried acid residue

[Robin Lumsden]

The TK is original......one of the German hoard from last year. It's one of the many hussar types.

The funny thing is, the regimental history of Kav. Rgt. 5 (published in the 1970s) says that Herr Assmann of the factory fame was a former member of that cavalry regiment (or, at least, its predecessor) and when the regiment was given the right to wear TKs again in 1944-45, it awarded Assmann the contract to make them. That particular 'haunted eye' type of skull is shown in that book being used on a set of NCO shoulder boards.

Just a little food for thought.

[RobertE]

Hmm. Maybe not as clear cut as one would have originally supposed. If the original pre-RZM dies were used by Assmann to crank out the 44-45 contract for TKs, they may not have retooled just to get their code on the pieces. The bag is another matter...

[Donald Abenheim]

eine kleine Bemerkung

Hmm. Maybe not as clear cut as one would have originally supposed. If the original pre-RZM dies were used by Assmann to crank out the 44-45 contract for TKs, they may not have retooled just to get their code on the pieces. The bag is another matter...

If this regalia was provided to the German army, it would have required no RZM codes. The procurement for the German army was handled by its own agency, separate from the NSDAP. Further, if you look on the Bavarian State archives website, there is an interesting account of the Zeugaemter in the Bavarian army prior to 1914; after 1918 and their role in secret supplies to paramilitary groups; the link to Ernst Roehm and how these institutions were plainly the prototype of the RZM, whose antecedent was created in 1928 in the SA and then in 1930 was vested with the Schatzmeister of the party. I am glad to know that these badges are authentic, even if the Tuete is an absurdity.

[Robin Lumsden]

The badge is of the type found in Berlin last year. Here are some of them. I believe they were uncovered by workmen on a building site and the story was written up in the newspapers.

These were freely available on eBay last year but have now mostly disappeared into collections - when seen recently on dealer sites they fetch $150 upwards each.

I have one identical in style that I got many years ago. It is zinc with brass prongs, so is probably 1944-45. All the Berlin ones were silvered brass or bronze. It is likely that the Berlin ones date from the Imperial era.