Beret skulls

[SJP]

These are seldom encountered and the fakes are getting better but have not been sucessfully copied yet(IMO).

This style is well documented... some think other wise.
All comments welcome
__________________________________________________ _________
Cheers Steve

[Sayle F]

Pbs

Here is a good one Honest to goodness Vet aquired. Looks pretty close to yours.

[B. N. Singer]

These are seldom encountered and the fakes are getting better but have not been sucessfully copied yet(IMO).

This style is well documented... some think other wise.
All comments welcome
__________________________________________________ _________
Cheers Steve

Would like a more detailed picture but from that one shot it strikes me as an Original.

B. N. Singer

[jimt]

beret

Both examples seem quite correct to me , as B.N. and Steve stated..........
jim

[joelhall]

wow, ive never yet had the chance to see originals 'up close' like this.

does anyone have an actual panzer beret for reference either as the pics in my ss books are too small to see details.

[Richard P]

This discussion started on the Best off 2007, but I will continue it here instead as it seems a more proper venue. Doug O. did not like the insignia on my SS stug beret piece, nor the complete beret pictured. I will only address my own piece, as I have a separate opinion on the beret shown, but it was not asked for so it will not be given.

My photo was not the best photo and it was cropped and did not show the entire souvenir piece. I will show the entire piece for discussion purposes. I will show photos of good skulls ( I believe) that I have accumulated, and a couple of eagles, but will mainly focus on the skulls. This is what I found in my research and some conclusions I have drawn for my collecting purposes only. I am sharing them as an SS panzer beret novice.

My research sources include a number of published photos of SS beret insignia in books, but I not using their photos for this discussion, but will refer to a couple of them by book name and page number. I have found two distinct types differing by color and embroidery. An off white set...and a silver gray set. Same color type correspondence associated with Heer panzer berets. Both color types of SS beret insignia probably had more than one manufacturer.

I have found that the eagles are all embroidered by machine similar to SS (non-bevo) sleeve eagles with no additional added black thread details. The skulls however, exhibit the same type base machine embroidery and then seem to have machined black details added by hand operation. The patterns are the same but differ slightly on almost every skull. Here are a number of photos.

[Richard P]

More Photos...

[Richard P]

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[Richard P]

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[Richard P]

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[Richard P]

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[Richard P]

7. This is my SS stug beret insignia from the front. Notice it is the cover with the spun style top that is clearly visible in this piece. The piece is big enough to retain its beret shape when laying flat on either side. If the eagle appears curved its only because the material curves. The eagles wings are straight out. Notice the bottom portion that is on every beret cover. The material is doubled back upon itself and woven into a tube shape which flattens out. This provides the covers elasticated band which holds it on the crash helmet.

[Richard P]

8. From this side view you can see the beret shape still in the cover piece and you can see the tube shape at the bottom which is actually hollow if held open. The insignia is all zig-zag stitched in place. I can provide back shots if necessary.

[Richard P]

9. This last shot is of the off white and silver gray eagles photographed together. The silver gray is a tiny bit smaller. They share the same characteristics, but have obviously been embroidered by different machines. The off white eagles details tend to run together on this example which may indicate a late run on this particular embroidery machine.

One book that illustrates the off white set is "Cloth Insignia of the SS" by John Angolia illustrated on page 462. The next page has the entire beret, although rather small. Another book that has actual photos is "SS Headgear A Collectors Guide" by Kit Wilson.There is a stug beret cover on a black crash helmet on page 39. There is a black beret on page 57. There is a close up of a set of insignia on page 70 along with a few fake insignia photos.

There are some rather good fake eagles, but I will not go over the details here as they made a few telltale mistakes that I would rather they not correct. They still don't have the skulls too close in my opinion.

Richard P

[Arran]

I think what would be really beneficial would be if someone posted the very best repros of this type of skull and eagle...I know there are very good copies out there!