"Pink" smock or not?

[Thälmannpionier]

Whatever Floch says is just hearsay (why can't anyone fathom this) it is not "proof".






Glenn

whats the point to ask..if that may was the source back than where they came from...
Would be like asking snyder about eva brauns socks i guess....

[Glenn McInnes]

Hello again Glenn,

if Johann Floch is the one who got the Smocks in 1980 and Bob Hritz talks directly to Floch then what either Johann or Bob tell us is not "Hearsay"

Johann is a witness to the event and Bob's report has substance,

Chris

It means nothing..Just a conversation between 2 people.

Like I said already,Floch can say he got them from the moon,there is no proof.

How many times do you hear collectors say they got something from a Veteran,when they actually did not.




Glenn

[Glenn McInnes]

whats the point to ask..if that may was the source back than where they came from...
Would be like asking snyder about eva brauns socks i guess....

Finally,someone who gets it.








Glenn

[brooksbz]

The images in this post show the green thread used in the Pink jacket.
This thread is so far removed from SS it is painful.
To know SS sewing is key when playing with SS Collectables.

When I exposed the SS helmet cover fraud the key was again the thread.
There are somethings you can't mess with and its the big one.

Owen: I could not agree more on the thread. I believe 90th Light knows about the thread too because I saw the topic discussed on some SS M-43 cap threads.

Getting back to the chemistry, it really is a dead end because even if you proved the materials were original, it still could have been assembled in a basement from an old tailor in the 1970's (when they were still alive). Chemistry alone can't tell you if an item is pre-1945. The only marker that would indicate this if chemical markers show a post 1950 fire-tardent or sizing agent was picked through mass-spectropy or a gas chromatograph.

In regards to the champagne decals, the paints are simpler to analyze than textiles. The modern painted decals should wipe off with acetone. Decals can be flaked off. WW2 paints have a different chemistry and will not come off with acetone or paint thinners.

I went through all of this back during the famous panzer wrap thread 4-5 years ago and determined that sewing was the key. It is very difficult to fake period sewing.

[Disco Partisan]

Wrong - you need to put forward an argument to support your position - again, saying your right because you say you're right isn't up to scratch.

i did already:
"Minsk-film" is fantasy as it has never existed. It means the stamp is fake.

Any believer ask this place in Minsk - they know for sure if such name has ever existed or been used :
Museum of the Belarusian Cinema History
http://cinema.museum.by/en

Official web-site: www.cinema.histmuseum.by

Contact E-mail: belkino1924@gmail.com

Just ask them
Their answer will answer the question of pink smocks originality

[NZMark]

Whatever Floch says is just hearsay (why can't anyone fathom this) it is not "proof".
Glenn

I agree - (I don't recall saying whatever this person says will be 'proof'?) but it's still of interest and part of the puzzle.
Mark

[NZMark]

i did already:
"Minsk-film" is fantasy as it has never existed. It means the stamp is fake.

Any believer ask this place - they know for sure if such name has ever existed or been used :
Museum of the Belarusian Cinema History
http://cinema.museum.by/en

Official web-site: www.cinema.histmuseum.by

Contact E-mail: belkino1924@gmail.com

Just ask them
Their answer will answer the question of pink smocks originality

OK - I'll also do a quick web search, too - will that also be definitive?

[NickG]

The images in this post show the green thread used in the Pink jacket.
This thread is so far removed from SS it is painful.
To know SS sewing is key when playing with SS Collectables.

When I exposed the SS helmet cover fraud the key was again the thread.
There are somethings you can't mess with and its the big one.

I am going on a limb here! (in regards to the thread issue and many other issues with the pink...so fake or foreign made)
Maybe it was Bulgarian sewing? Did the Bulgarians make German (SS) smocks? (or just war time German surplus, post war image!)
I know they made German cold weather flight gear (Luftwaffe contracts from a firm in Sofia...branded Alaska "Аляска", written in the tag like this!)

[Disco Partisan]

OK - I'll also do a quick web search, too - will that also be definitive?

What planet are from? First of all, every and each questionable item is fake by definition in this hobby Until proven otherwise.

Pinks smocks have never been proven original. That's it. Full stop. There is no need to prove that it is fake - because it has never been accepted as original. Kapish?

Secondly, the movie-museum in Minsk would have the definite answer as their main and only focus is the history of movie-making in Minsk from the day one. If "Minsk-film" term has ever been used (either officially or unofficially) - they know it for sure because they deal with original documents and artifacts directly on daily basis and have full access to it.

[90th Light]

The images in this post show the green thread used in the Pink jacket.
This thread is so far removed from SS it is painful.
To know SS sewing is key when playing with SS Collectables.

When I exposed the SS helmet cover fraud the key was again the thread.
There are somethings you can't mess with and its the big one.

All this detail now coming out, about how SS smocks can only have
black thread 90% & 10% very dark grey. Only "SS" made HBT in one colour
for the pockets is very helpful/ interesting. I can clearly see that it is based on years of real study of 101% known originals

I can accept these might be the manufacturing footprints of the
biggest German maker or two makers of SS camo smocks

However, how do we know there was just one or maybe two
maker of SS smocks during WW2. The Germans did not do it that way for
anything else they made and there was a war going on. The Waffen SS was
expanding plus progressively with their backs to the wall. Also they owned
a lot of industry and factories only too keen to produce.

How much do we actually know about the firms, organisations and factories that made SS smocks during WW2, and where were they located ?

The SS Zelts were made by private companies that had to resort to rougher sewing such as hand-made button holes because of bombing but quality did not get rough in all cases. Why were SS Smocks not also produced by private companies/ factories or at least some ?

The parallel with tropical clothing is uncanny. For example we know of some cap makers who might have only made one production run of caps or made tropical caps for only one year, such as "K&S Berlin" Many who collect tropical caps have never seen a "K&S" and do not even know that they existed at all,

Chris

[nutmeg]

Finally,someone who gets it.








Glenn

Hopefully , he may have some proof, receipts, photos of the bales or other documentation or something that might provide a clue. I think it's unlikely but certainly worth a shot. Nothing to lose , let's wait and see.

[RobertE]

What planet are from? First of all, every and each questionable item is fake by definition in this hobby Until proven otherwise.

Pinks smocks have never been proven original. That's it. Full stop. There is no need to prove that it is fake - because it has never been accepted as original. Kapish?

Secondly, the museum in movie-museum in Minsk world have the definite answer as their main and only focus is the history of movie-making in Minsk from the day one.

I have emailed several film companies related to this discussion, and have no response yet. I will post any responses.

s/f, Robert

[nutmeg]

Secondly, the movie-museum in Minsk would have the definite answer as their main and only focus is the history of movie-making in Minsk from the day one. If "Minsk-film" term has ever been used (either officially or unofficially) - they know it for sure because they deal with original documents and artifacts directly on daily basis and have full access to it.[/QUOTE]

I emailed them , so far no reply.

[90th Light]

It means nothing..Just a conversation between 2 people.

Like I said already,Floch can say he got them from the moon,there is no proof.

How many times do you hear collectors say they got something from a Veteran,when they actually did not.

Glenn

Equally Glenn,

how many times does someone say they got something from a veteran and they did ?.

If I can not accept the word of a collector like Bob Hritz to be an accurate account of what he saw and was said, especially given his background and training then I give up on the whole human race.

Also many have said here more than once, Johann Floch sold original as "original" and fake as "fake". It is what happened since then that has been the problem,

Chris

[brooksbz]

How much do we actually know about the firms, organisations and factories that made SS smocks during WW2, and where were they located.

This does not matter. They all used the same machines and materials.