"Pink" smock or not?

[NickG]

The SS by Pohl did an amazing work on the camouflage, they field-tested different patterns and from late 30s up until the Leibermuster in 44/45 they experimented- and developed a huge amount of different camopatterns.
- Block pattern
- Palm
- Plane tree / overprint of an early Oakleaf - nr. 1 - 6

Best, Tom

Indeed! I wonder if this is a PINK (Birch)? Appears to be!
Pretty effective camo whatever pattern it is! (Image credit Dobroni.pl)

[SJP]

When did the Steven/ Amdio book , Museum exhibits and a known fake peddler ( allegedly ) become credible sources??? Having owned one of these pinkies and reading all the proponents views, there is nothing new ( IMHO) to change my opinion. I bought mine for $500.00 in 1985 which today is around $220.00

When some one steps up and pays 5/6K that will be an opinion shift.
Best Wishes for the Holiday Season
Cheers Steve

[90th Light]

When did the Steven/ Amdio book , Museum exhibits and a known fake peddler ( allegedly ) become credible sources??? Having owned one of these pinkies and reading all the proponents views, there is nothing new ( IMHO) to change my opinion. I bought mine for $500.00 in 1985 which today is around $220.00

When some one steps up and pays 5/6K that will be an opinion shift.
Best Wishes for the Holiday Season
Cheers Steve

J. Borsarello had "Birch" smocks in his book and had more than one in his own personal collection. He freely discussed the possible ongoing evolution to what he called "Oak C"

Does that also make him nothing more than a misguided novice on the subject too, his books thus worthless and of no substance ?

Every book brings something to the mix and there is no such thing as just one book on any subject,

Chris

[Jeff V]

The next person throwing insults gets a time out to reflect on the proper way to address his fellow collectors.

[NickG]

Lets just take a deep breath and enjoy peaceful walk in the woods shall we?
(Russian Birch forest...so soothing!)

[juvatwad]

And directly from a collector who really knows his stuff, was there at the time, knew Floch personally then, and still does now. Plus he saw the rodent damaged smocks that were on the top of the bales. In fact I am told he even had a rodent chewed sleeve at one stage;



Thus the point of FrenchVolunteer's post number 879 in all of this is other than being pointless hearsay ???

Chris

Technically, Bob's post is hearsay, too. "Royster" may be a bull shtr, but some of the details in his statement are consistent with Bob's Floch origin, too. It's too bad that, lacking definitive WWII provenance or period photographic evidence, the information that may be able to sway people will come from a guy with a mixed reputation.

[SJP]

Chris, As I recall he regrets that inclusion .Regardless all the cited sources are not credible ( IMHO)
Cheers Steve

[salt*creek]

J. Borsarello had "Birch" smocks in his book and had more than one in his own personal collection. He freely discussed the possible ongoing evolution to what he called "Oak C"

Does that also make him nothing more than a misguided novice on the subject too, his books thus worthless and of no substance ?

Every book brings something to the mix and there is no such thing as just one book on any subject,

Chris

Borsarello and Mike Beaver made mistakes. We all do trying to learn this stuff. See the posts regarding his 1986 book mistake here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...e+works&page=2

Mike had full page pictures of an early reenactor fake smock in his first book. I can tell you that Mike always told me the pinks were fake. We all thought they were cool though.

[SJP]

Lets just take a deep breath and enjoy peaceful walk in the woods shall we?
(Russian Birch forest...so soothing!)

Nick, do you believe that a special pattern was developed for a very fluid situation on the eastern front?
Cheers Steve

[90th Light]

Technically, Bob's post is hearsay, too. "Royster" may be a bull shtr, but some of the details in his statement are consistent with Bob's Floch origin, too. It's too bad that, lacking definitive WWII provenance or period photographic evidence, the information that may be able to sway people will come from a guy with a mixed reputation.

Without getting bog down in the technical meaning of "hearsay" from one country to the next. Basically it is;

"information received from other people which cannot be substantiated"

In Bob's case this is different because he knows Johann Floch personally, is writing to Johann Floch to substantiate what he knows/ remembers and they will discuss it further at the SOS. Bob has then offered to report back.

This makes Bob a credible witness in this matter of real value,

Chris

[nutmeg]

I went over my Birch smock in detail with a super strong UV lamp. No glow anywhere, not threads, pockets nothing. Actually, this was kind of surprise because since it appears to have been washed I would have expected some glow because of phosphates in the detergents of that period.

[90th Light]

Chris, As I recall he regrets that inclusion .Regardless all the cited sources are not credible ( IMHO)
Cheers Steve

Steve, at what point in time would that have happened ?

I corresponded with him in the mid 1980's to late 1990's and he was convinced about them then,

Chris

[NickG]

Nick, do you believe that a special pattern was developed for a very fluid situation on the eastern front?
Cheers Steve

No its not just wooded areas (Taiga) also plains... See this image...Fluid situation...out of the woods into the plains!
and of course the smocks can be reversed, flipped to more spring time and summer greenish hues as we know...
so depending on the season! Maybe that's why Russian uniforms are more brownish in color!

All I'm saying is that these colors might look weird but the topography was studied and the Germans were masters in camo.

Even Army (Heer) sumpftarn is a spectacular camo...(marsh pattern) which is why it was adopted by the West German BGS. See image!

[90th Light]

Borsarello and Mike Beaver made mistakes. We all do trying to learn this stuff. See the posts regarding his 1986 book mistake here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...e+works&page=2

Mike had full page pictures of an early reenactor fake smock in his first book. I can tell you that Mike always told me the pinks were fake. We all thought they were cool though.

This thread despite its length is a good peer-review of theory/ findings/ research/ conclusions. This occurs and is necessary in all sorts of academic debates/ findings around the world.

There is nothing wrong with this. All parties learn, review, reflect and research further in an endeavor to solve the problem or find the answers.

We will find the answers one way or the other but it will not happen over night. Bit by bit more about these will be found.

Like all authors. Mike faced the need to reflect, review and up-date from one edition of his book to the next.

The tragedy is that the world was robbed of his talents/ knowledge far too soon,

Chris

[Hilton]

Palmenmuster; "and in Norway they made Oak camo " . Have you found information that the actual Oak fabric used in the "Norwegian" parkas was printed IN Norway!? If so; that would be total news !

And the parkases themselves are not exclusively found here in Norway, 2 years ago (or so) one was shown here on the SS forum that was found in Germany (with provenience I seem to remember).