"Pink" smock or not?

[nutmeg]

I would point out just because a film company had them didn't mean they were ever used. They could have just sat in a basement or backroom until someone said to get rid of that crap and someone decided he could make a few bucks on the open market.

The mid 70s was about the time people in Europe started to realize stupid Americans would actually pay good money for this rag market stuff. I got a pair of mint ss camo trousers that came originally from a rag seller in Germany.

[kammo man]

The new original jacket with the stamp is seeded to flavor the swindle.

[kammo man]

I would point out just because a film company had them didn't mean they were ever used. They could have just sat in a basement or backroom until someone said to get rid of that crap and someone decided he could make a few bucks on the open market.

The mid 70s was about the time people in Europe started to realize stupid Americans would actually pay good money for this rag market stuff. I got a pair of mint ss camo trousers that came originally from a rag seller in Germany.

I got a Splinter Jump smock from a rag dealer for $12.
I got a mint set of water pattern winter cammos for $20.
I hit Rag mills all the time.
There is good stuff out there all the time.

American advanced SS cammo collectors arnt as stupid as you think.
All know the Fake Pink game.
Mike was aware back when he did his book.
Thats why there are NO mistakes in it.

[90th Light]

The pocket bags are NOT the same.

Comparison of the HBT in the pocket and stamps.

It looks to be the exact same gauge of thread used to weave the HBT

Plane-Tree = top image

"Pink" (Birch) = bottom image


I now realise that some of the problem with the HBT in the pockets of the "Pinks"(Birch) not being recognised as period/ good is partly because of the late war, ersatz, blended nature of the cloth and the other part being the heavy industrial washing of them.

When you look at nutmeg's HBT pockets on his smock and even Mike Beavers book volume 3, you can see this thicker later war HBT (before heavy washing or have they been washed on nutmeg's smock ?).

The poor quality/ ersatz nature of the yarn from which the HBT is woven has exploded, imploded & distorted a bit on many of the "Pinks" (Birch).

If you look at the Beaver book, volume 3, page 850. You can see that same thick gauge of HBT used on the collar and pocket of the M44 dot camo jacket.


We seem to go round and round and round and round in circles with Owen .

However, nutmeg can put his smock pocket side by side with a "Birch" pattern pocket and confirm this when he gets a chance/ opportunity to do so,

Chris

[nutmeg]

I'll probably be able to in a few days when I can get access to a Birch smock.

[NickG]

Many unissued items were found in huge quantities in many places and more often than not left untreated...found and sold as mint unissued...
unless there are major odor issues or import governmental sanitation requirements, had these been smuggled out of USSR and imported into the West
through an intermediary 3rd satellite country (in a legal way). True!

To treat these (chemically?) to make them look older, more convincing? No...Stone mint is not a problem so why alter the condition on purpose?

Many hoards existed. The quantity of war materiel left over after the war was immense...including unissued camouflage smocks (and G43 pouches from the Ukraine...etc). We in modern times have no idea...

Koreans used SS (dot) camouflage supplied by the UNITED NATIONS (obtained from US captured war surplus inventories)

[kammo man]

Nick
That's why I stated mint jackets were taken complete with their strings.

[NickG]

Nick
That's why I stated mint jackets were taken complete with their strings.

So for these to be found without their laces intact but otherwise in decent condition is suspicious?
Rodents love laces, cords, wires...it is a spaghetti delicacy for them! Damaged, rotted away? Who knows?
The lack of laces means nothing...but honestly I don't know why those were missing...Perhaps taken out for recycling purposes....
(shoe laces) there were all kinds of shortages in those days...A none issue, non red flag!

[90th Light]

Nick
That's why I stated mint jackets were taken complete with their strings.

The strings may have been in the smocks at the distribution depots Owen,

However,smocks came in bales from the factories that made smocks and the laces/ strings came in boxes/ packets from the facilities that made them.

Both came to the uniform distribution depot from separate manufacturing sources and were put together by the depot personal or given separately to the SS soldier to put together.

Same for WH, LW, KM, trop, NSDAP and any other branch of service.

We have already been over this ground. Thus if you are so certain of what you are reciting then please give facts, photos or details of what you basing this upon,

Chris

[90th Light]

I'll probably be able to in a few days when I can get access to a Birch smock.

Thanks nutmeg,

I would appreciate that. Perhaps you could take a photo and post here ?

Chris

[viva_giulio]

Lets assume the stamps were fake, a very elaborate fake, it took 5 separate stamps to create the stamps shown + the smear = 6 processes, 3 ink colors!!!
(explained in post 1295)
WHY? Too complicated!

and think about this one:
The stamps were made in the Soviet Russian language of the unified USSR, so to include Belarus.
If a faker had done this in more recent times, he might have accidently copied something in the Belarusian language.
This language (also known as White Russian), has been the official language AFTER 1990 in Belarus (Minsk)....
The faker would have done his home work correctly to choose a studio outside of Russia (inside USSR still) and still use the Russian language,
which was strictly a Soviet USSR thing! Pretty complicated for a Western dealer who wanted to deceive...NO WAY!!!

As explained in post 1345: "Minsk Film" (capital of Belarus):
Минск, Фльм - Russian language : as it appears on the stamp (= Soviet times USSR)
Мiнск, Фiльм - Belarus language : = contemporary spelling post 1990!

It is clear you never visita east europe.
My wife is Ukranian. Also in cccp time belarus and Ukrainehave a sort pPF own language alight different from russian.

Alla translator report belarus and Ukraine use "i"./go there, i bet 10.000 EUR you will not aee " i" but и .
Ps: i am going to Ukraine for a month. As usual.

[90th Light]

It is clear you never visita east europe.
My wife is Ukranian. Also in cccp time belarus and Ukrainehave a sort pPF own language alight different from russian.

Alla translator report belarus and Ukraine use "i"./go there, i bet 10.000 EUR you will not aee " i" but и .
Ps: i am going to Ukraine for a month. As usual.

???

That is how they spell it with an "i" on goggle right now.

"MiHCK"

Chris

[NickG]

It is clear you never visita east europe.
My wife is Ukranian. Also in cccp time belarus and Ukrainehave a sort pPF own language alight different from russian.

Alla translator report belarus and Ukraine use "i"./go there, i bet 10.000 EUR you will not aee " i" but и .
Ps: i am going to Ukraine for a month. As usual.

Nope never been...no thanks...(been to Hungary, Czech republic and Poland)
but honestly I prefer Italy! Go there every year for the last decade or so...Will be in Bologna in March!
So 10,000E would come in handy!
Ciao!

[viva_giulio]

You can find i in state documenta passports. All modern writings. In 1947 not. However also modern film is write as rRussian.
It's hard to explain, it depends also by districts (o'blast) and % of Russian language in the Ukrai e or Belarus. For sure Belarus have Russian as language 100 time more than Ukraine.

[nutmeg]

It is clear you never visita east europe.
My wife is Ukranian. Also in cccp time belarus and Ukrainehave a sort pPF own language alight different from russian.




Alla translator report belarus and Ukraine use "i"./go there, i bet 10.000 EUR you will not aee " i" but и .
Ps: i am going to Ukraine for a month. As usual.

Минск, Фльм - Russian language : as it appears on the stamp (= Soviet times USSR)
Мiнск, Фiльм - Belarus language : = contemporary spelling post 1990!

Andre who wrote the above was born and lived in Minsk for 40 years as he stated above. I would consider him to be the last word on the subject.