"Pink" smock or not?

[kammo man]

I don't see what that has to with this.

Don
Don't be confused.
What I am saying is pretty simple.
owen

[nutmeg]

Don
Don't be confused.
What I am saying is pretty simple.
owen

I think it's way too simple . To prove your point you need some concrete facts other then you don't like them (and the are not pink BTW) . The fact there are 2 other types of good smocks out there with the identical film markings ( and the other 3 from the lot mine came from may have had them if memory serves me correctly) and the date 1947 cinches it for me. There is absolutely no point in an elaborate ruse to mark 100% original items (the palm and planetree) with fake Soviet film markings. If this was a Floch master plan how come he didn't mark it in all the DAK caps as well? You could just say these came from and old warehouse which would frankly be a better story then marking them up and even changing the day date. If it was only the Birch smocks with these markings I would be hesitant , but with the planetree and Palm , I'm a now believer. BTW I've been collecting for 45 years got my first German helmet in about 1961 or 63.

[galizien41]

The truth is out there!

[NickG]

Lets assume the stamps were fake, a very elaborate fake, it took 5 separate stamps to create the stamps shown + the smear = 6 processes, 3 ink colors!!!
(explained in post 1295)
WHY? Too complicated!

and think about this one:
The stamps were made in the Soviet Russian language of the unified USSR, so to include Belarus.
If a faker had done this in more recent times, he might have accidently copied something in the Belarusian language.
This language (also known as White Russian), has been the official language AFTER 1990 in Belarus (Minsk)....
The faker would have done his home work correctly to choose a studio outside of Russia (inside USSR still) and still use the Russian language,
which was strictly a Soviet USSR thing! Pretty complicated for a Western dealer who wanted to deceive...NO WAY!!!

As explained in post 1345: "Minsk Film" (capital of Belarus):
Минск, Фильм - Russian language : as it appears on the stamp (= Soviet times USSR)
Мiнск, Фiльм - Belarus language : = contemporary spelling post 1990!

[phild]

We want FACTS, why you keep saying things are wrong ?


Chris

No neck lace of course! That is what clinches the deal that these have to be fake.

[90th Light]

Left image: proof that German uniforms left the factory tied together in bales

Right image: "Oak" or "Birch" ?

The evidence is most certainly out there, "believe it or not"

Chris

[kammo man]

I think it's way too simple . To prove your point you need some concrete facts other then you don't like them (and the are not pink BTW) . The fact there are 2 other types of good smocks out there with the identical film markings ( and the other 3 from the lot mine came from may have had them if memory serves me correctly) and the date 1947 cinches it for me. There is absolutely no point in an elaborate ruse to mark 100% original items (the palm and planetree) with fake Soviet film markings. If this was a Floch master plan how come he didn't mark it in all the DAK caps as well? You could just say these came from and old warehouse which would frankly be a better story then marking them up and even changing the day date. If it was only the Birch smocks with these markings I would be hesitant , but with the planetree and Palm , I'm a now believer. BTW I've been collecting for 45 years got my first German helmet in about 1961 or 63.

Don,
You believe what you want to believe that the Pinks are real.
I am happy for you.

The supplier of the jackets was NO fool and knew to throw in some good with the bad.
Its money making 101.

owen

[NickG]

Don,
You believe what you want to believe that the Pinks are real.
I am happy for you.

The supplier of the jackets was NO fool and knew to throw in some good with the bad.
Its money making 101.

owen

For good measure the faker also knew how to throw in "some rats and other rodents" to have these intentionally chewed up...
and throw in some water damage too? Good grief!
That's also "money making 101" I guess! The faker was absolutely brilliant with his aging processes! (as not all were minty!)

[nutmeg]

That doesn't hold water because this was stuff pieced out here and there over time. Not like it was all brought to one show where where everything could be examined at once. It's only now with the internet that the realization that good items have these marks as well.

Don,
You believe what you want to believe that the Pinks are real.
I am happy for you.

The supplier of the jackets was NO fool and knew to throw in some good with the bad.
Its money making 101.

owen

[andrei1774]

Минск, Фильм - Russian language
Мiнск, Фiльм - Belarus language
Russian language was on the 1st place in Belarus, native was on 2nd. Typical practice in USSR. So no confusion, why they used Russian language in movies and everywhere else.
All additions on the end of words , just a grammar.
In this contest film studio, studio who makes a movies in Minsk, not a Cinema "kino" .
Not sure, if they have inventory of decorations. But it is a possibility, that they can call themselves short Minsk Film.
I am not SS collector and can say anything about Pink smock, but just want to bring facts, that was a Minsk studio , who makes documentary films. Then, in 1968 they have been renamed to "Letopis" and became a part of "Belarus Film"

Also, don't forget nutmeg link in post #1337.
Unbelievable, but one of the most powerful USSR goverment newspaper "Izvestiya" in 1958 posted interview with editor of "Minsk Film Studio".

"Despite all the loose talk about "decentralization" in the
USSR, the film industry is becoming increasingly russified.
An editor of the Minsk Film Studio (Izvestia, 30 January 1958)
wrote:

"If Byelorussian films were shown without the credit
titles, scarcely anyone would know where they were made.
The majority of them have absolutely no national content...
And most of the script writers with whom we have contracts
live in Moscow Leningrad or Vilnus. Things are still
worse as regards actors...if we recall the Byelorussian
film of recent years it is remarkable that Byelorussian
actors 'have had only episodic partst This practice still
continues. We have just finished work on 'Happiness must
be Protected.' All the principal roles in it are played
by Moscow or Leningrad actors..."

[nutmeg]

Left image: proof that German uniforms left the factory tied together in bales

Right image: "Oak" or "Birch" ?

The evidence is most certainly out there, "believe it or not"

Chris

I recall in the early 1970s when buying stuff out of NYC costume shops Civil war shell jackets in bales of 25 or more. The ones on the outside showed wear but the ones on the inside were crisp and fresh as new.

[kammo man]

I recall in the early 1970s when buying stuff out of NYC costume shops Civil war shell jackets in bales of 25 or more. The ones on the outside showed wear but the ones on the inside were crisp and fresh as new.

So why are every single Pink jacket hot washed ?

Makes no sense with the above statement.

[kammo man]

The simple fact that all the pinks were washed stone- washed is another part of the fakers trail to make them look used.

The they were dirty so they needed to be cleaned is rubbish.

More like we made them and they are brand new so lets put some millage on them is closer to the truth.

[nutmeg]

So why are every single Pink jacket hot washed ?

Makes no sense with the above statement.

Because they weren't in a NYC costume shop where there were no rats, mice or bugs. Everything was well fumigated (with god knows what) because damage from critters ruins inventory that is rental income. I would imagine Soviet storage facilities were somewhat way under that standard. Also these things could have been moved about in filthy box cars and traveled through various infested areas before working their way West. They could have smelled like rat pee or whatever. I had a Japanese helmet that a mouse had made a nest in , it took several months to get the pee smell out. If infested or smelly they might have been taken at customs so had to be cleaned first before export.

[pete]

EASY....I have experience in Bosnia and other Balkans countries clearing out old JNA store houses. What you find in all cases is clothing and equipment that has been damp,cold, hot, etc and is smelly and mouldy, rats chewing on it, making nests in it etc. I found loads of cool and valuable stuff but took none! So for example old JNA yellow camo sniper suits( SAME as smocks ), or rain poncho-shelters (same as Zelts)...a few guys took those because they were still new, just had been subjected to that kind of unhygenic and mouldy storage. You would even have to wear masks inside! So, the only way would be a serious washing of that item....there you go. Half the stuff is actually too rotten to even take most times,you can never get the stink out of it.