"Pink" smock or not?

[NickG]

This one was on Warrelics Forum in 2011 and identified as a problem Pink (Birch)...
Washed out stamp? These were not ink stamp faked and later intentionally defaced!

[Disco Partisan]

The stamps on your smock are much better/more readable than on other pink smocks shown in this thread before and I believe I can clearly see Russian word "movie" in the black stamp. Also the stamps look pretty much the same as the stamps on the original palm smock on B.Shea site. You really need to do your best and make a new picture of the black stamp as good as possible so that we can read the first word.

Thank you for your help Disco Partisan.

Here are additional photos of the stamp.
I have also included photos of the printed "skip spots" (white areas where ink
was missed during printing).

longislandercjv,
Unfortunately and as you already know, I was unable to read the first word in the stamp (name of the movie-company) because it has been almost completely erased/washed out. But the stamp has not been blackened like onn another examples and there is an old trick that we could use here: If you water the stamped area, the marking may become more apparent / more readable. Can you please do this favor for us - water this area (it won't hurt the in anyway) lay it flat and make a good picture of the stamp. If we can read the name of the movie company we can contact them directly and ask if it is a legit stamp.

[nutmeg]

i monkeyed with it a bit on photoshop , sometimes switching to black and white helps. h

[nutmeg]

here's mine again. Closeup , you can see the first letter of the second word clearly. I contrasted it a bit in photoshop

[Disco Partisan]

i monkeyed with it a bit on photoshop , sometimes switching to black and white helps. h

Thank you though I already did it all ..with no success. I just posted this new stamp on Russian forum again and keep fingers crossed

[RobertE]

What a nice surprise to wake up to - a third original SS item found with nicely dated stamps. My hat is off to Nutmeg!

Two original smocks and one original pair of dot trousers. As far as I'm concerned, the film company is irrelevant at this stage, assuming a 1947 film company is still even around today.

That this last smock was reportedly one of four and is likely associated with Floch's previous bulk finds of original items is also good news. The discovery of the same HBT pocket materials in a stringless smock takes it beyond the stamps - the dated, identical HBT should tell you all you something.

I assume that no fake examples of anything have been found with these stamps in them? Why would a faker mark a set of SS trousers to prove a bulk release of SS smocks were real - they not being associated in any way with the smock find? Why not just mark up a bunch of junk items like LW sport shirt eagles, canteen covers, stripped caps...if all one needs to do is show the stamps existed, why mark up beautiful SS smocks and trousers with markings that would only cast doubt on their originality in the 1980's?

We are two decades into digital photography. Among the hard-core camo and uniform collectors photo archives, I'm sure there are "keeper" photos of successes, mistakes, and noteworthy pieces. From any of the smock detractor's holdings, someone must have a pictures of this stamp in a fake item, if it was truly a hoax intended to legitimize fake items. Anyone?

Again, this was really a fine good group effort to prove these smocks to be what they are - foreign made, but 100 percent original items produced during the war. Thanks to all that contributed!

s/f Robert

[RobertE]

DP, thanks for pushing this analysis. It certainly can't hurt to find out the company, and attempt to corroborate the use of the stamps with the company, or with it's successors who may still have examples in inventory.

I also contacted a major Soviet uniform collector to see what he can tell me regarding the stamps - we'll see where it goes. Thanks again for pushing the stamp identification, DP.

s/f Robert

[RobertE]

Nick,
The fake stamps on fake jackets added to a few real pieces does not make Pink-Clown jackets real.
The added stamps are simply part of the CON by creating provenance
The scam worked.
The coven of belief in the 3 members here proves this.
They are brain washed in their Pink CULT
The CULT of the pink smock has NO takers at the bargan price of $1500.

$1500 entry level PINK ...........

any takers ?

NO ........is the answer.

NO .

Pink clown circus pattern

Owen, there are at least four believers, including me. I'd suggest there are many more holding their opinions to themselves, but the tide is going out for the disbelievers.

I know a smock sold within the last month for 1200.00, and quickly. I'll let the seller and buyer chime in if they wish, but the "sales price" has jumped from 700.00 to 1200.00 over the summer, for those that use sales price to determine originality.

You have no evidence to support this being a con on anyone's part, or you would have posted it. These stamps have only been found in original items, which is a new revelation, and we now have a date. No one but a fool would stamp a real pair of dot trousers and two very nice mid-war smocks with bad stamps to justify the markings in the suspect smocks. It would have hurt their value in 1980. If one just needed to show the stamps in original items, the fakers could have stamped up boots or thermal underwear sets - much cheaper than SS.

I would suspect we'll find more original SS items with these stamps. You might want to stop digging in at this stage and just watch how it plays out. No one disputes your knowledge, but you should probably try to find something besides conjecture to support your claim at this stage.

s/f Robert

[Disco Partisan]

I tried to play with markings in Photoshop once again and just like FrenchV. said the first word in the stamp looks like "Минcк" (eng: "Minsk"), which is a capital city of Belarus republic. See pictures below. The word "Минcк"/Minsk perfectly matches the length of the word and ghosts of letters (curves, corners/angles, etc).
Note the same font(that matches the second word "film"/"фильм") has been used

[Disco Partisan]

As I just mentioned, "Минcк" (eng: "Minsk") is a capital city of Belarus republic.
There (in Minsk) is a movie company called BelarusFilm (rus: "Беларусьфильм").

BelarusFilm (rus: "Беларусьфильм")
established: 1924
First movie: 1926

Offical names :
1924 - 1928 : "BelGosKino" (rus: "Белгоскино")
1928 - 1946 : "Sovietskaya Belarus" (rus: "Советская Беларусь")
1946 - now : "BelarusFilm"(rus: "Беларусьфильм")

The name "Минcк-фильм"/eng:"Minsk-film" has never officially existed or been used. I used this combination of words "Минcк-фильм" with google search and got zero results in the Internet. In addition, below are screenshots of all the names the movie studio in Minsk used from its very start in 1926 first movie.
Note that in screenshot of the 1947'production movie there is a word "Минcк" just above the year. It is because the movie-company located there and the movie was made there. But the word "movie"("фильм") is in the official name BelarusFilm = "Беларусьфильм"



I would highly expect that in their official stamp they would of course put their official name which is BelarusFilm, not Minsk-film

[David Fettes]

I too have beeing looking on the internet for this film company and I have just gone through all of the know Soviet made films from 1946 - 1967, no luck.

However this does not mean that Minskfilm was a film company, they may have been a costume company suppling clothing for the film industry.

[Disco Partisan]

I too have beeing looking on the internet for this film company and I have just gone through all of the know Soviet made films from 1946 - 1967, no luck.

However this does not mean that Minskfilm was a film company, they may have been a costume company suppling clothing for the film industry.

The stamps that you see on uniforms were placed there to indicate that it is property of the movie company and its unique inventory number

[David Fettes]

Yes I reaslise this, but what I am saying is, it could be the stamp and inventory number of the costume department within Беларусьфильм or a serperate company that only supplied Беларусьфильм. Unless that is not the way the Soviet system worked.

Maybe you could contact them and ask. Their email address is available on their website.

[RobertE]

This all assumes that the stamp reads Minsk-Fim; it may or may not. We do not know how Belarusfilm was organized; for instance, prior to 1939 they were not even located in Minsk but were split between Moscow and Leningrad. It would be difficult to say how their costuming enterprise was arranged, assuming we even have the right film company.

DP, the suggestion to contact the film studio directly is a good one. Could you reach out to them? They may recognize the stamp even if it is not theirs.

s/f Robert

[Disco Partisan]

Yes I reaslise this, but what I am saying is, it could be the stamp and inventory number of the costume department within Беларусьфильм or a serperate company that only supplied Беларусьфильм. Unless that is not the way the Soviet system worked.

Maybe you could contact them and ask. Their email address is available on their website.

Yes I believe there were no "third parties"/no serperate company for the storage.
I will definitely contact them Monday but I am not sure if they will ever respond especially if stamps are legit because many things have been stolen in the past and they may start panic that we are trying to reveal something.