"Pink" smock or not?

[90th Light]

There are two words separated by dash (-)

In the picture below are names of all movie studios in ex-SovieUnion. None of them matches, even remotely.

Thank you,

I can see what you are saying.

Is your list of words the same scale as the picture of the stamp ?

Could the first word be an abbreviation of a longer word given that there is a dash ?

Can the last word only be a film studio or can other types of studio enter the mix of possibilities ?

Chris

[kammo man]

Good work Disco.


Fake stamps on fake jackets.

Whats funny in this circus is the jackets managed to find there way through USSR and into a known fakers hands at a time there was a state of cold war.
Ummmmmm.

[Disco Partisan]

Why would they do that when it significantly lowered the price at the time and many collectors in the West rejected such items with Russian stamps ?

Movie-studio stamps did lowered the price of original items but at the same time movie stamps can significantly raise the price of fakes.

All Russian stamps on WW2 German items were seen as dodgy in the period up to the Berlin Wall came down. It was only in the 1990's that some collectors finally began to realise what the stamps meant and why they were there.

how much dodgy really? To the point of fakes? That's probably unlikely. For example the market was already flooded at that time with Yugoslavian movie studio marked original uniforms and no one thought they were fake because of the movie stamps on them. What I do find very hard to believe is that anything from Russian movie studio could really go through the iron curtain away from the Sovietunion in early 80s. Sovietunion was isolated from any outside business. I would think that the first Russian-movie-marked items appeared after at least 1985-87 and not any earlier.

It makes no sense for the Russians to put fakes stamps on at that time. They were almost giving away the 101% original items for very small amounts of US$. There just was not the fakes like there are today,

Chris

of course Russians would never did that in 80s for the reason you stated- original staff was going dirt cheap back then after the "iron curtain" fell down. And even more so before that, because selling anything that belonged to government's movie studio would be very severely punished and easy trackable back then.

What I meant is that the Russian markings could have been added by a faker who sold them in the US.

Question: besides of these pink smocks, have you ever seen any other original garment with Russian stamps in early 80's ? I doubt it

Oh sorry I forgot about the story about Yugoslavian connection: like they came from Yugoslavia which probably got pinks from Sovietunion or something like that. Could be but ..

[90th Light]

Movie-studio stamps did lowered the price of original items but at the same time movie stamps can significantly raise the price of fakes.

how much dodgy really? To the point of fakes? That's probably unlikely. For example the market was already flooded at that time with Yugoslavian movie studio marked original uniforms and no one thought they were fake because of the movie stamps on them. What I do find very hard to believe is that anything from Russian movie studio could really go through the iron curtain away from the Sovietunion in early 80s. Sovietunion was isolated from any outside business. I would think that the first Russian-movie-marked items appeared after at least 1985-87 and not earlier.

There were no fakes of SS smocks worth talking about in those days and nothing that sold for less than US$50 which is what Floch was selling some of the Pinks for

Like "phild" I got my "Pink" (Silver Birch ?) in the early 1980's and thus know exactly how collectors viewed Russian stamps back then. I was one of those collectors. Plus we use to buy German WW2 items and other Soviet items off the Russian sailors on the fishing boats that came into New Zealand. They loved to trade and were always after second hand sewing machines and Morris Marina cars.

However, it was quite amazing what they could smuggle out of Russia. One M40 combat jacket still had all the Germans papers and awards in it including a very combat worn S&L Type A KC. In fact after one deal, my friend found US$10,000 in the pocket of one of the Soviet army jackets. We figured it was probably the guys life savings and took it back to him. He was very thankful/ gateful After that, he always had a nice German WW2 or even WW1 item for us, every time, no trouble. Always smuggled out of Russia. Always to say thanks and no German WW2 item with fake Russian stamps at the time only real stamps from where they were stolen from. Always a discount if Russian stamps on German items.

I live through those times. I saw what it was like before the 1980's and after,

Chris

[kammo man]

I am pulling up a chair , opening some chocolate biscuits and putting the kettle on for the reply to this one !.

[90th Light]

Good work Disco.

Fake stamps on fake jackets.

Whats funny in this circus is the jackets managed to find there way through USSR and into a known fakers hands at a time there was a state of cold war.
Ummmmmm.

May be the fake stamps are like all that Korean camo you have seen on "Pink" (Silver Birch ?) smocks Owen,

May be they are proving just as hard for you to find ???

Chris

[90th Light]

And I am putting my kettle on to while I wait for the example of this Korean based camo ???

90th
Pink cloth is nothing like German
But we all know that
Construction is nothing like German
I have personally seen Korean camouflage fabric incorporated into pink smocks
Pinkie stinkey

Chris

[90th Light]

Good idea, definitely time get out the chocolate biscuits. The river of crap just keeps flowing;

Chris

My pullover was Not damaged

The 4 buttons that were Mismatched were reenforced with Korean herring
Bone camouflage fabric then sewn on.

I have seen this on several of these sub standard jackets that are not German war time made.

Being the only collector to realize this shows others limited experience

Pious is some religious stance that repulses me

Owen

Could take a while for Owen to find the Korean camo examples. I might need more than one packet and another cuppa,

Chris

[Disco Partisan]

There were no fakes of SS smocks worth talking about in those days and nothing that sold for less than US$50 which is what Floch was selling some of the Pinks for

Like "phild" I got my "Pink" (Silver Birch ?) in the early 1980's and thus know exactly how collectors viewed Russian stamps back then. I was one of those collectors. Plus we use to buy German WW2 items and other Soviet items off the Russian sailors on the fishing boats that came into New Zealand. They loved to trade and were always after second hand sewing machines and Morris Marina cars.

However, it was quite amazing what they could smuggle out of Russia. One M40 combat jacket still had all the Germans papers and awards in it including a very combat worn S&L Type A KC. In fact after one deal, my friend found US$10,000 in the pocket of one of the Soviet army jackets. We figured it was probably the guys life savings and took it back to him. He was very thankful/ gateful After that, he always had a nice German WW2 or even WW1 item for us, every time, no trouble. Always smuggled out of Russia. Always to say thanks and no German WW2 item with fake Russian stamps at the time only real stamps from where they were stolen from. Always a discount if Russian stamps on German items.

I live through those times. I saw what it was like before the 1980's and after,

Chris

you just can' be serious

[90th Light]

you just can' be serious

100% accurate account of what happened. The collector who found the US$10,000 was "ebony" who is also a member here but posts no longer since he and I got into trouble for how we posted photos on WAF under his name without me being a member.

I was there, the good old days of the Russian fishing boats in New Zealand 1980 to 2000,

Chris

also use to get lots of hats, belts, uniforms, knives, badges, flags, Icons & Stalin busts. I still have a big box of it.

[90th Light]

"Russian, Japanese and Korean trawlers and squid boats were often seen around New Zealand’s coast in the 1970s, when they were allowed to fish within 12 miles (19 kilometres) of land. They caught large amounts of squid, hoki, mackerel and southern blue whiting in the waters above New Zealand’s continental shelf. This photograph shows a Russian trawler (centre) transferring its catch to a larger vessel with refrigeration facilities. The small tug was used by the Russian fishing fleet."

"Some Russian seamen from freighters or fishing boats stayed in New Zealand after marrying New Zealand women. In the 1990s the Russian community in Wellington became concerned that ship-jumpers were giving all Russians a bad name, but the problem was short lived."

Chris

[NickG]

So the film property stamp can not be linked to a studio at this point...
what about the other stamps...Meaning? Does anybody recognize those???

Here appearing on an original set of DOT pants and original German Smock...

[NickG]

and appearing on pinks...If the property stamp is a dead end...
What about the triangualer and circular stamps (which have been seen on original clothing... see prior post, credit to Pete!)
Is that USSR ministry capture related??? 4 = 1944 ??? Significant?
stamped like this prior to release to G'ment controlled movie studio? which added the black stamps later on? (film Co. which can't be ID'd yet?)
__________________________________________________ ________

Pete posted this in another thread that got closed...

At least from TM 30-546 a US INT Manual there is a breakdown of abbreviations. I am aware that the Soviet system changed in 1946 from Commissariats to a new system, however this should not effect generalities in abbreviations as such. https://fas.org/irp/world/russia/sovmil-glossary.pdf

The triangular stamp Бил ( is B. I. L. ) Note there is a period dot after each letter as if abbreviating a department in long form. Note as well triangles are some kind of soviet capture generic symbol, many types of triangles with data in them on weapons and clothing etc.

the U circle stamp- That Cyrillic U character is letter TS. The interesting thing is when you see U, it proceeds all listings of a "Central" HQ, Bureau, institute etc. etc. So U could denote "central" something. U can also stand in the Russian Military abbreviations on it own for designation"metric centrar, eg. 100 kg".

Now on the square stamp you see NHB No.______

Interesting thing is the N character stands for: I, the H stands for N, and the B stands for V. So you have INV No____ (It could be inventory number alone and not sure why No - number is not in cyrillic).

or,

HB- on its own stands for Military Chief of equipment. It could be that the square stamp has a film studio portion as well as a linked military "registration number" from the MOD who issued it to the film studio. So, it could be NHB No. 123456.

NH: on its own designated Historical institute.

So put NHB together NH (historical institute) and HB (Chief of Military equipment). Not sure how that fits but these are the 1957 Intelligence on the Russians, likely unchanged abbreviations from WW2.

I am still searching for more answers or clues to crack this (credit goes to Pete of course!!!)

[RobertE]

Regardless of what the stamps read, those stamps should not be in smocks or any other WWII German uniform item circa 1980's - they hurt the value. The point is, no fraudster would jeopardize the potential sale of a superbly built replica with a stamp from the east.

Fake RZM stamps, humped up stabs at what a real RBN would looks like, bogus names, improbable stamps in German - that's what was being used at the time. Not unknown Soviet anything.

As far as finding the company, we first have to read the markings clearly, which we can't. But the style is definitely Soviet inventory types. I have seen hundreds of them, in Soviet museums. Once we do find the company name, we can keep pulling that thread and see where it goes.

It's premature to try to decipher the studio, and we certainly shouldn't be calling the stamps fakes because we can't reconcile what they say with a short list of possible match companies. DP's list of Soviet firm company's wasn't meant to be inclusive (I don't think); there were at least 25 film companies and of those, most underwent mergers and name changes. For instance, the All-Union Newsreel Factory - Soyuzkinochronicle changed it's name five time before settling on the Central Studio for Documentary Film.

Those same stamps have been found in original SS uniform items, and shown here in this thread. So while we have seen these stamps in original items, we have NEVER seen these stamps in a known fake. Not on belts, caps, uniform items, field gear - anywhere. I'm not talking about Czech film studio stamps or other inventory markings, but these exact stamps - they have never shown up in anything fake. Just in original items.

s/f Robert

[NickG]

I agree Robert (and so does Bill Shea!)
"On the green side, at the bottom reverse are ink stamps, indicating that this example was captured by the Russians"

Full "Palm" smock description: (why put fake identical stamps in such a beauty...its "self authenticating" without the stamps" !!!

http://www.therupturedduck.com.hosti...forms/u067.htm



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