"Pink" smock or not?

[kammo man]

how about the FACT that my first "Pinkie" had all its buttons that were mis-matched were reenforced with Korean HB camouflage fabric at the sew point to the smock on both sides ?

Korean .........Herring Bone duck hunter from the 1970s.

Maybe the smocks were Korean made as they had a track record of using SS cloth post war.

owen

[RobertE]

Owen, I would post pictures of that to illustrate your point. Just as Chris has done, a picture says a thousand words for these type discussions.

The mint Luftwaffe splinter pattern camo smock I posted in the FJ section came from Thailand, as did the LW blue two pocket shirt. Lots of original WWII German camo ended up in the Far East - maybe some thoughtful soldier repaired it with what was around?

regards, Robert

[kammo man]

Robert,
This was on my first pink that I bought from Regmentals as real for 750 pounds in the late 1980s.
owen

[kammo man]

Not repaired but made that way in the same batch as others.
I have seen others with this same piece of fabric ..so its not a one off.



German WW2 items show up in Thailand due to them importing 1000lb bales of used rag from the EU and USA to sort for the Japanese vintage market.

[RobertE]

Or used in Vietnam, ect. I have only had a couple of the pinks and just have one now, and have not seen this variation (use of hunting print material).

Any variation of what we have seen should be posted, and Owen points out it was not just his but others. Can anyone post this feature? We've had digital cameras for some time guys - pls look through your archives or pull out your smocks again.

These smocks seem made darn near identically, when compared to one another. Any construction anomoly would be of interest.

regards, Robert

[kammo man]

Robert ,
In an old pink thread all I got is a picture of me wearing my smock brown side out as the green looked nothing like anything else I then owned.
It did strike me as VERY odd back then that it would have this feature.......
But I was a young 21 year old........
Who had only seen 15 pieces of original camouflaged SS cloth.
Now years later I know better.
o

[phild]

how about the FACT that my first "Pinkie" had all its buttons that were mis-matched were reenforced with Korean HB camouflage fabric at the sew point to the smock on both sides ?

Korean .........Herring Bone duck hunter from the 1970s.

Maybe the smocks were Korean made as they had a track record of using SS cloth post war.

owen

I wish they were as they would have to be about the most exotic piece of military camo ever made story wise...sort of the Dos Equis of camo.

South Korean military does not explain the buttons however or how they would have come through Russia (captured by the north and then given to the USSR...WOW O' WOW) and received the stamps.....or really anything else about these.

I have never seen the camo material that you speak of for the button backing patch.....if it is found on more than one it would be interesting to hear about it.

I will say that these patches in question are about a 2cm (max) WxL ....it is had for me to accept that anyone could begin to ID a camo PATTERN from such a size if sample...unless it was from a GI Joe toy uniform maybe.

I'm not calling anyone a liar, but show me the pattern on a 2cm size patch.

I would not doubt that this size is large enough to see a different material and perhaps different color(s)......but so what? If some actually were made using a different material in this area I would suggest that the company may have been involved in pre-war camo production for commercial or foreign military and used some scrap ...which seems to be what many demand anyway on SS smocks.

[kammo man]

Philid,
I have one of the largest collections of Vietnam camouflage in the world including Korean patterns used during the war and it was very east for me to ID the backing fabric used.

After examining many M-42 SS pullovers its quite common to see all patterns used for the button backing.
why I have even seen 44dot being used on some garments.

The point of my post being ............someone made these jackets who had studied an original closely but made several mistakes,

owen

[phild]

Philid,
I have one of the largest collections of Vietnam camouflage in the world including Korean patterns used during the war and it was very east for me to ID the backing fabric used.

After examining many M-42 SS pullovers its quite common to see all patterns used for the button backing.
why I have even seen 44dot being used on some garments.

The point of my post being ............someone made these jackets who had studied an original closely but made several mistakes,

owen

I'll not question what you have seen used as the button backing material on one (or more?) examples of these smocks, but I will just say that I personally have not seen anything other than the scrap of the same material as the smock is made from being used nor would I understand why a faker would use anything other than that either.

I know I would 100% if I encountered such a thing (strange material used for the backings) make sure that the thread sewing the buttons on (and hence the backing material) was consistent and indeed old and identical to what is used on the other pink smocks...and if not I would assume that the buttons and backing were re-sewn.

I have reached a point that believe that IF a detailed analysis was performed on the smock material, the pocket bags and the thread (both types found in these) the results of the analysis would show the composition and to my total satisfaction would prove if these were WWII or not.....I think it near impossible to get all of this correct (it really is nearly that even now) and more so no one knew or cared back then to get that level (material fabric composition) correct to known blends used during WWII. I suspect that there will be a good deal of rayon found in some of the items tested based on my own studies of samples from these.

[kammo man]

So why don't you get this test preformed in a lab?

[kammo man]

So go to a lab and get the test preformed and post the results.

opps double post .

[Fritz]

I have reached a point that believe that IF a detailed analysis was performed on the smock material, the pocket bags and the thread (both types found in these) the results of the analysis would show the composition and to my total satisfaction would prove if these were WWII or not.....

An analysis could only prove they are fake, it couldn't prove they are good.

Means that if an analysis fails in detecting them as fake it doesn't mean they are original.

I think it near impossible to get all of this correct (it really is nearly that even now) and more so no one knew or cared back then to get that level (material fabric composition) correct to known blends used during WWII. I suspect that there will be a good deal of rayon found in some of the items tested based on my own studies of samples from these.

Rayon is a valid component of german ww2 cotton duck material.


Instead of wondering whether they've got the components of fibres right, one should rather wonder whether they've got the fabric right, the print right, the thread right and what have you and the answer no.


BTW, has anyone posted the stamps yet that raised so much hope?

Cheers

[kammo man]

A great point that the fabric itself is rubbish and nothing like the standard duck cloth the was of very high quality throughout the war.

[RobertE]

Owen, I don't know where the notion of this being inferior material is coming from. The smocks under discussion are not made of inferior material - it feels and behaves like zelt or helmet cover material.

As Phild has repeatedly stated, this smock is not attempting to look like the accepted, German produced varieties. It doesn't have the same print, HBT, minor cut details, or other features.

But it is not cheap, inferior material. It is on par with other original German outer wear uniforms I own.

regards, Robert

[kammo man]

Robert ,
with all due respect the fabric of a "pinkie' is NOT the same as on a accepted Pullover, Zelt, helmet cover or cap.
we all know that winter camouflage is different.

The "pinkie' fabric is not as dense or waterproof as wartime fabric.

Unless you own something different.

o