John Floch, believe it or not, has had in the past and continues to have some wonderful and real material. Although he is inextricably linked with fake badges and insignia, it is a major mistake to automatically dismiss him as a source. Many younger collectors have never met him or had the pleasure of actually dealing with him face to face. If you ask older collectors and dealers, most will report to you that he has been very helpful and generous, SO LONG AS he knows that you are serious about this hobby.
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This nails another problem on the head. I have seen families selling stuff from Men who where vets that are 100% fakes unknowingly. Vets bought stuff after the War for whatever reasons to give to kids etc. Look in old gun catalogs and American legion, they were selling repainted helmets in there until the 1980s.Originally posted by Bobwirtz View Post
I also know of German Vets who purchased postwar items and these later were sold as WWII in estate sales. There was a panzer set sold last year on Ebay and an SS parka that were garbage but where indeed from the Vets (an SS panzerman in Milwaukee) estate, he bought them in the 1970s from collector's armory etc.
IMO you always need to follow up, that said there are a lot of variations that cannot be dismissed as fakes only because they are different then the ones in books. Collectors will be debating real patterns colors et. long after we are all dead. In the end we will never know aside from the documented fakes.
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Dismissed
I dismiss no Man as a source! Do a search on the Badge Forum, he dosen't seem to have a lot of friends there and it is easy to see why.Comment
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Bob,Originally posted by Bobwirtz View Post
I'm close friends with two Waffen-SS veterans. Both have purchased reproduction items in the past to replace things they used to have but were taken away when they marched into captivity. Anyone purchasing these items from their children (when they pass on to Walhalla) will be very upset to find they are reproduction.
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Dr. Strangelove:
I bet none of those people bought directly from Floch!
Anyway, not here to argue who did what to who, just add a bit of info maybe not as well known as the "Mr. Hyde" side.
Best to all and Happy Christmas!
Leroy
ENJOY YOUR COLLECTIONS! As Maj. Kong said (Strangelove, you'll appreciate this): "Geez, a fellow could have a pretty good time in Dallas with all this stuff!"Comment
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And if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.
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Price
How much did you pay for these items?Comment
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And then the family gets all upset and thinks you're trying to rip them off... "these belonged to my husband, he was in the war... how could they possibly be reproductions?" My friends just pick out the good stuff and make an offer and tell the people that they personally aren't interested in certain things (the reproductions) without telling them that they are reproductions... saves a lot of bad feelings.Originally posted by Josef Hahne View Post
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Good for you Tony, Bob Hritz and John Pic. IMO this type of smock has never been proven to be a fake but rather only different....which could mean a period variation.Originally posted by TONY Q.W. View Post
I would love to hear the son's knowledge of these items and how early (what year for instance) does he remember seeing this smock. Anyone can make up a story, but often the truth and a fabrication can be determined from one another.Comment
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Ben,
I have a "pink smock" in my collection and I believe its 100%. If you dont want it, send me a PM and I will take it.
Best regards, Tom.Comment
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Ben,
Save your money these are NOT pre may 1945 manufacture, robert noss did a very good side by side comparison of this camo some time ago with other oakleaf.
IMO These were probably made for one of the soon to be eastern block countries shortly after the war, more than likely the country of origin of these smocks, there are plenty of examples of post war countries in the west taking a german design and putting it into use post war and producing there own version like the army"splinter" pattern for example
cheers
Gary
photos below credit Robert NossLast edited by Gary Wood; 09-01-2008, 02:05 PM.Comment
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