Check out this SS Officer uniform!

[SgtB]

It seems these forums are more about establishing a heirarchy..pointing out others mistakes with glut and glee and more to embarass than anything else and not owning up to the mistakes made by the untouchables.

Sadly, I have to agree with you John. But I know many others here agree with me that you are one of the worst offenders of that doctrine on the forum. You are obviously trying so hard to establish yourself as one of the SS Gods that little piss-ants like me can't possibly bring anything helpful or constructive to the table. If it doesn't fit perfectly into your all-knowing, all-seeing theorem (whichever way it might be going at the time),
it is immediately dismissed, loud and clear, rudely and disrespectfully, as just so much dribble. I have to agree with JR that, like a Clinton, you have to come in on every possible side of the arguement, in fear of not sounding like an authority on the subject. Give it a rest. You're not any more or any less an expert than any of us here.

Having said all that, I honestly agree with you much of the time. In fact, that is one of the (manageable) problems with these forums, that one has to completely spill his entire knowledge on a subject, over and over again, thread after thread, lest he sound like a novice. Most of what has been said on this thread about determining a tunic's authenticity, has been said before, again and again, and for the umpteenth time, and it should be second-nature for all but those who entered the hobby just now. There ain't a whole lot about determining a tunic's originality that I didn't know two decades ago, but I don't feel like I have to spout that fact on every thread I enter. And that's far from saying I can't be mistaken.

But I will say, that if you don't immediately zoom in on that area right above the right breast pocket on every single SS tunic you come across, you're 'flopping your fella in the face of an unforgiving foe', so to speak. And that bitch can take a big bite.

As I said earlier, vis-a-vis the subject tunic, it may very well indeed be a wartime conversion. Who knows? But that definitely has to affect the asking price, exponentially downward. If I have a Heer stahlhelm with the decal scraped off, or a no-decal helmet, just because I have some shaky provenance that an SS-Mann owned it, can I demand 10-grand for it? Unless you're the first collector to receive it from the source, the point is pretty much moot.



"Let me add this for thought since Im "Dic" to Bonini..not that that bothers me I get called that daily in my job and its predictable with guys like him."


And what's your excuse, John? Would it kill you to refer to me by my first name? Or at least spell my last name correctly? Surely you got that far in school!?!?! It's avery proud family name, I can assure you. My grandfather came to America all alone when he was 14 years old. A real Godfather story.

I'm sorry for spelling your name wrong, but If you stare at your keypad long enough, you'll see a "P" on every key! Try it! Speaking of that, I gotta go!

[John Pic]

I wrote a long response but Im trying hard not to get sucked into the nonsense anymore so I deleted it.
No one stops anyone from posting opinions. Brian post away if fact post your SS tunics, but be careful I learned doing this is not always rewarding. Ive posted many different tunics in detail that Ive held and examined over the years. What amazes me is that the guys who squeal opinions the loudest usually never post any SS tunics in detail just occaisional mannequin shots or outside views at a distance but mostly none at all.Feel free to post your SS tunics Brian I will refrain from commenting on them unless invited.

Also since I am baffled by this question perhaps you could answer it?
Why on earth would a person attempting to fake an SS officers tunic by rebadging a heer tunic post war have the cuff length adjusted and make it look worn at the new length to top it off? Why not just sew the SS collar tabs and eagle on it and leave the cuffs alone that way it would look even more "unmessed" with. If you could answer that with something better than "oh well fakers will do anything" sure they will Ill buy that but Im willing to bet none were smart enough to think that one up. Heck these fakers didnt even add an EK ribbon or fancy cuffband to really bring in the bucks. Please explain this because Im baffled by it.

[JohnS]

Tunic Collar hook (s)

Staying away from any frictions in this thread, I thought it might be useful to explore the dynamic of the single collar hook on WSS officer tailor made tunic. As most of you are probably aware the use of the single hook was actually one bit of regulatory guidance that was spelled out clearly (and is a clearly non-army thing).

That said, most of what you see has two hooks (I'm sure these represent most of the orig. WW2 pieces. ..as well as all the post-war rebadged Army officer tunics).

This dichotomy may be an illustrative indication of the true distance between WSS regulatory guidance and its frequency in actual practice. (which could have impications far beyond tunics..i.e. color-piped visors etc..??)

Anyway, I have only one late war tailor made gabardine WSS officer with the single hook. I havent seen any others that I can recall.

OK..the questions:

1) Who out there has single hook WSS officer tunics to show?

and 2) Anyone ever seen single-hook Army Officers?

Cheers, John

[Robert H]

You find both hook styles on WH or SS tunics, as there are more variations possible with mostly everything. Even you will find changed or modified french cuffs on original SS tunics. Don't follow stricly own experiences, there is more out.

[Mike Davis]

Anyone ever seen single-hook Army Officers?

Here is one example of Heer officer with single collar hook - M42 with officer's collar added. I have also had at least one tailor made example for Heer officer with single collar hook.

[John Pic]

I had an odd one.The tunic itself was fine and it had a high stand and fall collar but only one hook set. There was never another on it it was almost like the tailor forgot it because the collar was so high it really required two. Had the tunic been worn in the field or hard duty it wouldve broken the hook because it was the top set.

[JR.]

So as I understand it, if you are looking for a get down, righteous, no bones about it, honest to god real period SS tunic; that these are the 2 lists that you need to be aware of when considering the purchase of one. The dirty rotten scroundrels list to stay away from, and the righteous ruler list that you can go to the bank on. These names are the ones that you have mentiioned on M*C*F* and on WAF.

On the dirty rotten scorundrel list we have:

P. Von Lukacs
B. Coleman
Simon LS
J. Casino
B. Demmel
P. Jarvis
R. Turner
W. Schumacher
H. Weitze
S.Wolf
B. Shea
C. Gottlieb
R. Distelhorst
B. Singer
N.Graetz
K. Winkler
D. Paxton

On the list of the trusted we have:

J. Pic


As I would love to have one of these tunics in my own colection, I wanted to make sure that we had all the players listed on the proper list...........

[John Pic]

JR..I wont play your game..if you want to learn about tunics the way I have then you go right ahead and trust anyone you like you will learn.

Gary I think JR needs to be put on notice for flaming.

Buy away

[Gary Wood]

ok gents please keep this thread on the topic of tunics and keep the personal stuff out of it

[judas]

So as I understand it, if you are looking for a get down, righteous, no bones about it, honest to god real period SS tunic; that these are the 2 lists that you need to be aware of when considering the purchase of one. The dirty rotten scroundrels list to stay away from, and the righteous ruler list that you can go to the bank on. These names are the ones that you have mentiioned on M*C*F* and on WAF.

On the dirty rotten scorundrel list we have:

P. Von Lukacs
B. Coleman
Simon LS
J. Casino
B. Demmel
P. Jarvis
R. Turner
W. Schumacher
H. Weitze
S.Wolf
B. Shea
C. Gottlieb
R. Distelhorst
B. Singer
N.Graetz
K. Winkler
D. Paxton

On the list of the trusted we have:

J. Pic


As I would love to have one of these tunics in my own colection, I wanted to make sure that we had all the players listed on the proper list...........

would like to see what tunics are bad and to witch name so how about some photos i mean i hear so mean times how this is about looking out for the collecting world .we cant be taken to court down here so if you like give me the names with a photo of the bad goods jr you have done it now

[B. N. Singer]

So as I understand it, if you are looking for a get down, righteous, no bones about it, honest to god real period SS tunic; that these are the 2 lists that you need to be aware of when considering the purchase of one. The dirty rotten scroundrels list to stay away from, and the righteous ruler list that you can go to the bank on. These names are the ones that you have mentiioned on M*C*F* and on WAF.

On the dirty rotten scorundrel list we have:

P. Von Lukacs
B. Coleman
Simon LS
J. Casino
B. Demmel
P. Jarvis
R. Turner
W. Schumacher
H. Weitze
S.Wolf
B. Shea
C. Gottlieb
R. Distelhorst
B. Singer
N.Graetz
K. Winkler
D. Paxton

On the list of the trusted we have:

J. Pic


As I would love to have one of these tunics in my own colection, I wanted to make sure that we had all the players listed on the proper list...........

Good Lord, at least I made it on a list!!!

B. N. Singer

[judas]

Good Lord, at least I made it on a list!!!

B. N. Singer

[John Pic]

I do question alot of tunics out there but im done Ive shown enough photos over the years to back me up.JR you can do well to show some you know are "untouched".

"Dirty Rotten Scoundrel" well thats your term..

Like I said post your tunics and the detailed photos of all the areas of concern to a tunic collector, as I have in the past...lets see them.

[JR.]

I have no experience with SS tunics or any other tunics, but I do know several collectors in 3rd Reich collecting community that I call more than
acquaintances........... and use the term "friends". Some of those friends are on the list, and others directly associated with this very tunic. 2 of those being:

Bill Rannow who originally tuned this tunic as I understand. And Kris Anderson who has now listed the tunic.

[judas]

john i must say not always comes across the right way and has even rubbed me up the wrong way with a few thinks BUT HE DOES KNOW HIS STUFF and i do not think he has hidden a"genders .