SS ring opinions please

[RaymondG]

Hi

I have seen enough of this one that I would walk past it and never look back.

As a pointer, look at the wear on the outside of the ring and compare it with the inside. The Himmler inscription is not crisp but very feint and it is battered a bit, but the outside looks like it has minimal wear.

I would doubt anyone would have such a terrible resizing job done on an original ring. I think I can see evo stick or something on the edge of the skull.

Raymond

[Robin Lumsden]

Andre.

There are a lot of good things about that ring. Some of the features most often wrong on fakes are right on that one.

However, there are a few things that also unsettle me.

The skull has been reapplied, or been poorly applied in the first place, which just would not happen with an original.

The wear also looks odd...............the inside is worn too much. The engraving is very good, but somehow too shallow. I once owned a ring which was worn completely smooth on the outside but which had sharper engraving on the inside than that one has.

On balance, I'd pass on it if I were you.

[Robin Lumsden]

Raymond.

I think we posted at the same time.

I'm with you....................on this one, at least!

[RaymondG]

Hi Robin

I agree that when I very first looked at it, it had an outside chance as it does display some characteristics I would expect to see.

However, the bad ones completely outweigh the positive ones. I cannot see how you could have so much battering and wear on the inscription, but the outside looks OK. It should be the other way around.

The joiner 'crevice' is a feast for the eyes.

Anyway, a bad ring with a bad story attached to it to boot.

So Andre, your search begins again. It will be worth it when you find a good one.

[NOR_collector]

Thanks for all the help people. I really appreciate it.
Hopefully the next I come over will be a good one.

Best regards,
André

[RaymondG]

Hi André

Well I wish you well in your search.

As a matter of interest, what was the price on the ring?

Raymond

[NOR_collector]

Hi André

Well I wish you well in your search.

As a matter of interest, what was the price on the ring?

Raymond

When I asked the seller what he wanted for the ring and the dogtag he answered "How much do you want to pay for them".
So that was the first "hint" I got that this might be a fake.

Anyway... What is a fair price for a ss honor ring?

If anyone is interested in this ring then PM me and I will give you the sellers e-mail

/André

[clevischi]

My opnion is:

The ring is a good one, but the owner made a poor re-size of it.
Because of the "small"size the inner inscriptions are like "fading".
No opnion in dogtag.

Seve your money for a better ring.

[David Guist]

Oh no I meant mine has the same name in it .

[NOR_collector]

I thought I would ask the seller for some more information regarding this ring before I told him that I do not want it.
He said that this is something that he has dug up among with some other items. My German are not perfect, but I think he found all items in the same spot. Like they wore hidden there or something like that.

I have attached a picture of the items he found. The picture is really bad.

He also gave me some more infor regarding Rudolf Müller:
MUELLER, Rudolf
(1890 - 19 )
SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Polizei:
Born: 27. Apr. 1890.
Died:
NSDAP-N.: 2 484 328/SS-Nr.: 361 261
Promotions:
SS-Brigf.u.Gen.Maj.d.Pol.: 9. Nov. 1942;
Assignments:
Befehlshaber der Ordnungspolizei (BdO) Kassel (Wehrkreis IX): 9. Aug. 1944-Apr. 1945.
Befehlshaber der Ordnungspolizei (BdO) Königsberg (Wehrkreis I): 1. Mar. 1942-5. Aug. 1944.
Befehlshaber der Ordnungspolizei (BdO) Krakau (as Oberst der Gendarmerie): 22. Aug. 1941-Dec. 1941.
Decorations & Awards:
1914 EK I: ; 1914 EK II:; 1939 Spange zum 1914 EK II:; KVK I m. Schw.: ; KVK II m. Schw.:;
Verwundetenabzeichen, 1918 in Silber; Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer; Landesorden;
Totenkopfring der SS

Here is what he wrote:
der Ring und die anderen Stücke sind von einem Bodenfund . Ich habe diese Stücke selber gefunden . Diese Stücke wurden im April 1945 im Wald versteckt und ich habe diese vor einigen Jahren durch zufall gefunden .
Der Kopf vom Ring hatte sich durch den feuchten Boden gelöst und ich habe den Ring mit dem Kopf nur provisorisch verbunden , weil ich nicht die Originalität verändern wollte . Der ring und die anderen stücke fand ich alle zusammen und sind 100% original

What do you think about this story?

[RaymondG]

Hi André

Rudolf Mueller (born 27.4.1890) was indeed a WWI vet.

One thing to note is that the ring inscription is for Müller. In all the Dienstalterslistes, he is listed as Mueller. There are others listed simply as Müller.

Of interest is that Mueller was not awarded a totenkopfring in 1942, but had been awarded one by November 1944.

He certainly won a BWB in WWI, though I cannot see an entry for WWII, though that is hardly conclusive

I cannot find a record of when he died.

Raymond

[NOR_collector]

I have also wondered about this Müller/Mueller.
This is just a thought... maybe it is a american way to write it as M(ue)ller instead of Müller.
I have seen this been done before on other names like Herman Prieß becomes Herman Preiss. Maybe the keyboards are different from European.

Here are a better picture of the lot he found.

[NOR_collector]

Here is a better picture of the ring.
I have asked the seller if he can take more pictures in daylight like this picture here.

You can see that there is some sort of glue behind the skull.

[RaymondG]

Hi

On the copies of the 1942 & 1944 Dienstaltersliste, he is listed as Rudolf Mueller. Now, the rest of the officers called Mueller have it written with the umlaut, so Müller.

When an umlaut is not present, it reverts to 'ue'. This is my understanding.

So, Müller is listed as Mueller on the two officer lists that I have and not Müller, as I would expect to see it. So, it is not a one off occurance.

Can anyone who is proficient in German explain why this would be?

From that, one would have to ask the question as to why the ring is not inscribed 'Mueller' instead of 'Müller'

From rings to questions on the German language. Wonderful

There is certainly some glue behind the skull and it looks like a brand called 'Evo Stick', or some form of carpet glue.

Raymond

[Robin Lumsden]

Can anyone who is proficient in German explain why this would be?

Raymond.

Some Muellers just didn't use the umlaut.

Simple as that.

Like Goebbels. No umlaut used.