Der Fuhrer Officer tunic.

[John Pic]

The Photo you posted Jacques of Ernst Krag, he is wearing a bullion Belgian made sleeve eagle, both he and Otto Weidinger wore this type of eagle on at least one of their tunics.

[John Pic]

Tried to post pic of BEVO eagle in 1940 but it wont post. and when it did upside down..freaky......But there it is...for my friend Jacques and thats a great tunic Jacques Id love to have it !

[judas]

-

[Kengir]

Tried to post pic of BEVO eagle in 1940 but it wont post. and when it did upside down..freaky......But there it is...for my friend Jacques and thats a great tunic Jacques Id love to have it !

I literally had to turn my laptop upside down to see that one
Nice example though!

-Jeremy

[Schulz41]

@John Pic

And this is a M36 Heer Tunic?
Because the shoulder boards are directly on the tunic.

Greets


@Kengir

*rofl*

[John Pic]

First of all it doesnt matter what kind of tunic is in the picture...it shows the use of the Bevo eagle in 1940.....Jacques tunic is not neccesarily an "M36" it is an Officers custom tailored tunic and could have been made anywhere between 1936-1945. Your reasoning is a bit clouded and I would say you really do not know anything about the subject. You could also inves in Agte's Peiper book which shows beautiful close ups of Bevo eagles on all sorts of tunics in the early days....OK now before you earn a reputation as a TROLL start posting pictures of your collection and others that prove youre right.

Oh and by the way if you've been paying attention the "Heer" style tunics worn by the SS are different than those worn by the Heer..

[phild]

Thanks. What I was attempting to demonstrate, evidently without success, was that the gothic script sleeveband was indeed worn after 1940 despite the introduction of the Latin block letter version. And since we know that Waffen SS M36 style uniforms were produced with both woven and machine embroidered sleeve eagles, such a combination as questioned by this new member was certainly worn. Now I'll just have to find some photos, will add that to my long list of action items.

Absolutely to the above statements. Maybe I don't understand the concern being raised...but if the doubt is that gothic script titles were not worn after the Latin script titles were introduced in late 39.....well is seems to me based on period photos from the entiire war that most of the D, DF titles ( and maybe many others as well) were for sure worn for the entire war period...more so for officers as these seem to be usually the gothic script type.

[Bobwirtz]

The Gothic style cuffbands for Deutschland and Germania were also worn throughout the war. In fact, they were still available long after December 1939.

[Schulz41]

@Bobwirtz

"The Gothic style cuffbands for Deutschland and Germania were also worn throughout the war. In fact, they were still available long after December 1939."

With "available" you mean a officer could take, say we 1941, a new tunic and he put a old gothic ct on it (and not to wear the old ct after 39 on the old pre39 tunic?).

Himmler made the rules how to wear a uniform correct.
Why did he accept this? Didn't let he proof this?

I know, that in the war a lot of incorrect things happend.

But so the new latin scripts didn' make a sense to produce them, if the old one used still later.

That's not the famous german Gründlichkeit.


(My english is bad, I know.)

[Schulz41]

...

And?
Something found?

[phild]

@Bobwirtz

"The Gothic style cuffbands for Deutschland and Germania were also worn throughout the war. In fact, they were still available long after December 1939."

With "available" you mean a officer could take, say we 1941, a new tunic and he put a old gothic ct on it (and not to wear the old ct after 39 on the old pre39 tunic?).

Himmler made the rules how to wear a uniform correct.
Why did he accept this? Didn't let he proof this?

I know, that in the war a lot of incorrect things happend.

But so the new latin scripts didn' make a sense to produce them, if the old one used still later.

That's not the famous german Gründlichkeit.


(My english is bad, I know.)

Your questions are hard to answer with absolute fact. It is for sure a fact based on surviving wartime photos that gothic bands...esp. with officers for the D and DF rgts. were often worn even I think mostly worn.

I think that there were a lot of them in the system before 1940, probably many pre-40 officers owned some..several extra ones and also some were re-used when in decent shape...all guesses on my part but all sitiuations that were very common in any army both now and then. We know for instance that a lot of Gothic flatwire D bands were found at the Dachau supply facility in the spring of 45.....

What I can not figure out is why the D flatwire Latin titles are so hard to find compared to the Gothic....I see it seems maybe 20 gothic flatwire bands for every flatwire Latin D band..at least for sale.

As for Himmler's uniform degrees and SS strict adherence to regulations I can only say that based on photos one could argue the the W-SS was the least conforming of the 4 branches...with the LW giving them a good run for their money.

[Schulz41]

...

@phild

Thank you very much for your next puzzle part of this hard nut / question.

[blitzkrieg gsd]

First i want to say nice restored tunic guy aand great work on the restoration. And i think a true statement was made about SS men destroying there uniforms when surrendering was made. That is something i need to remember myself when looking at untouched uniforms. And yoy guys have made some other great comments here that have educated me. This is whats great about the forum you can learn something if you listen.

[Schulz41]

Could this be the solution?

http://www.warelics.com/Insignia.htm

Latin Deutschland cuff titles for officers are available since 1943 and not 1939.
Could be 1939 a wrong fact in the history books?
Because this option makes sense.



"(445) THIRD SS-PANZERGRENADIER REGIMENT ( LATIN SCRIPT "DEUTSCHLAND" ) FLAT SILVER WIRE OFFICER'S CUFF BAND.

This "flatwire" Waffen-SS OFFICER'S cuff band is the "second-type", or so-called "block-letter" design ( ca. 1943 ) with the title "DEUTSCHLAND" executed in Latin script ( photo ). The "salt & pepper" verso, and black-silk covering on the reverse of the title, characteristic of this style of manufacture, are present ( photo ). The proper, seven-strand, silver wire borders are in good condition ( photo ). This example measures 16.75 inches in length, and was probably glued in a scrapbook at some time, as there are traces of OLD glue on the verso. The overall condition of this W-SS Panzergrenadier Regiment "DEUTSCHLAND" OFFICER'S sleeve band is VERY GOOD PLUS."

[Lorenz]

Almost all SS-Officer of the war time started theyr SS service in the Historical SS-Standarten Der Fuhrer, Deutschland , Germania and in the TV Standarten.
They worn the Gotic Flatwire cufftitles on black uniforms and overcoats for the most, like enlisted, NCO etc.. so the gotic type cufftitles were worn in abundance by all ranks, this is the reason becouse they are the most on the market. Instead the latin cufftitles were worn in war time just by the NCO and the Officers for the most and not always, so very less in number. This is in my opinion the reason for the large number of Gotic flatwire cufftiles on the market.
Lorenz

Your questions are hard to answer with absolute fact. It is for sure a fact based on surviving wartime photos that gothic bands...esp. with officers for the D and DF rgts. were often worn even I think mostly worn.

I think that there were a lot of them in the system before 1940, probably many pre-40 officers owned some..several extra ones and also some were re-used when in decent shape...all guesses on my part but all sitiuations that were very common in any army both now and then. We know for instance that a lot of Gothic flatwire D bands were found at the Dachau supply facility in the spring of 45.....

What I can not figure out is why the D flatwire Latin titles are so hard to find compared to the Gothic....I see it seems maybe 20 gothic flatwire bands for every flatwire Latin D band..at least for sale.

As for Himmler's uniform degrees and SS strict adherence to regulations I can only say that based on photos one could argue the the W-SS was the least conforming of the 4 branches...with the LW giving them a good run for their money.