SS Zeltbahn Plane tree original?

[Fritz]

This is not a numbered pattern so is it datable?

The later overprint patterns like your zelt were often printed with little care. On a "text book" printed piece the numbers should always be visible in the lower center of a zelt, one on the left another on the right half.

The prints were designied in a way that you would just cut the material along "cutting lines" after the printing process. The cutting line is visible in your 2nd picture and runs parallel to what makes the buttom in your picture (actually this is the right side of your zelt).

I think you can rcognize what looks like a "line" there? This is were the material was meant to be cut, obviously some employees didn't care to much for that as they had too many things to do as the war went on. It is quite common with overprint zelts such as yours and also not unusual with fully handscrened ones that were made later in the war.

So if you don't cut the material along those lines it maybe that the numbers are simply cut away....They were on the part of the material that was cut away.

Your pattern is a variation of 1/2 overprint, the zelt is from what I can see a piece of ca. 1944. Due to the fact that it wasn't cut in a textbook style we have parts of both patters on this zelt.

The screens were designed like this : One screen consist of the left half of "1" pattern and the left half of "2" pattern, this way you have a rectangle shaped screen that is easier to handle and generaly the best soloution, so each printing process with this screen made a left half for a "1" pattern zelt and another left half for a number 2 pattern zelt. Then you have a 2nd screen with the right side for "1" and the left side for "2"...This is why people talk abou 1/2 patterns....It's the same with 3/4....left side of 3 and left side of 4 on the same screen, right side of 3 and right side 4 on the same screen....and you already guess what's next....5/6....left side of 5 and left side of 6 one screen and the last screen right side of 5 and right side of 6.

After the printing you cut along the cutting lines and get single triangle shaped segments, each one has a number like "1" for example ( could also be 2,3,4,5 or 6) and is either a right or left half, then you simply take two "1" halfs, a left one and a right one and sew that together and voila you have your textbook platane zelt in a "1" pattern....But non textbook exsist as well...just see my zelt on the estand. However, for novices I would always recommend to start out with textbook as this can be difficult enough to understand.

On items were you don't cut along those cutting lines ( note that these were only there for cutting material for zelts ) such as smocks and combinations you will find one half of a number "1" print and one half of a number "2" print or "3/4" or "5/6". With half I mean that area that is supposed to be the left or right half of an zelt.

Thanks!!

Fritz

[Buckeru]

Hello

THanks to Fritz for he great explenation,and I hope I may ask another question!

What is higher in price oak leaf or platane pattern plane and does an print mistake increases the price or lower the price?

Thanks for the answere!

cheers Buckeru

[Fritz]

Hello

THanks to Fritz for he great explenation,and I hope I may ask another question!

What is higher in price oak leaf or platane pattern plane and does an print mistake increases the price or lower the price?

Thanks for the answere!

cheers Buckeru

From my observation platane zelts are more expensive than oak A or oak B zelts and they are less common. Print mistakes should not effect the price, they are very common and can be found in a large number of different variations on all german ww2 camouflage items, also heer and luftwaffe. I think they are actually only of interest to camo collectors, otherwhise they have no effect on the value.

As for a price chart for ss zelts beginning with the lowest I'd say:

Oak B & Oak A
Platane fully handscreened & platane overprint (fully handscreened is a little bit more commonIMO but also a little bit more sought after)
blurred edge
ss vt platane
palm ( I must here clearly say that the existense of such pieces was only assured to me by reliable sources, I have not yet seen a real one. )

Cheers

Fritz

[Buckeru]

Hello

@Fritz: thanks alot!

cheers Buckeru

[Fritz]

Hello

@Fritz: thanks alot!

cheers Buckeru

My pleasure!

Cheers

Fritz

[Petr]

Hallo Fritz,

What a proffesional teaching us! Thank you for your great explanations better than in any book, i mean it!
May I use your knowledge again?Tell me how common are the metal grommets backed with leather the larger ones and how common are ersatz plastic and even leather buttons used on SS zelts.Many years ago I had one VT SS platan zelt with all buttons in color and I idiot change it for one nonsence.There was a stamp 1939.I have not seen this type since.I have about 20 or 25 various SS zelts and none in rauchtarnmuster I believe it must be quite a problem to get it.Am I right? And what about triangular zelt in italian camo? Strange enough these are more difficult to get than ordinary oakleaf one in my country and they are considered more with SS than WH or Luft.here in Czech .Rep.I believe it is just non knowledge. Do you have any good knowlede about the other triangulat zelts as TENO,RAD,WH tropical etc? Maybe we can discuss them in very near future?
Good evening Petr.

[Fritz]

What a proffesional teaching us! Thank you for your great explanations better than in any book, i mean it!
May I use your knowledge again?Tell me how common are the metal grommets backed with leather the larger ones and how common are ersatz plastic and even leather buttons used on SS zelts.Many years ago I had one VT SS platan zelt with all buttons in color and I idiot change it for one nonsence.There was a stamp 1939.I have not seen this type since.I have about 20 or 25 various SS zelts and none in rauchtarnmuster I believe it must be quite a problem to get it.Am I right? And what about triangular zelt in italian camo? Strange enough these are more difficult to get than ordinary oakleaf one in my country and they are considered more with SS than WH or Luft.here in Czech .Rep.I believe it is just non knowledge. Do you have any good knowlede about the other triangulat zelts as TENO,RAD,WH tropical etc? Maybe we can discuss them in very near future?
Good evening Petr.

Petr,
thank you!!

To answer your questions:

IMO leather reinforced grommets are just a manufacturer's variation, nothing I would put too much weight in. Grommets were often reinforced, commonly by using an extra layer of cotton duck (zeltbahn fabric) in that area, often even army splinter, this will however only be recoginazable in case the zelt is damaged in that certain area. I think I have one where it can be seen, I will take a picture tomorrow in case I still have that one.

I have never seen true leather buttons on period zelts, could it be they were post war applied?

The brown "bakelite" buttons are not uncommon, they are "seized" italian buttons that were used there to produce zelts. You can find these on army (splinter) zelts as well. Beside the fact they are not made of metal they do also have four holes instead of three.

I better don't tell you what I have traded away when I started collecting and what I got for it...it's probably something that most of us went through! So don't worry, you are not alone .

Well, rauchtarn zelts or blurred edge as they are also called are not that common but they are also not that rare. I would say 1 blurred edge on 5 platane zelts.

The triangular zelts in italian camo were IMO army pieces, I know that some people believe them to be ss or ss and army issue. I have no problem with accepting that. But my theory is that both the army and the ss recaived a contingent of this fabric, a lot of material was used up in the field for "field made items"... the army ordered factory made zelts and the ss factory made anoraks from their contingents. But this is just a vague theory of mine...nothing I could say for sure.

I am looking forward to discuss other zelt types with you, however I am mainly into ss camouflage so don't expect too much from me when it comes to political organization's items .

Cheers

Fritz

[Josef Hahne]

Fritz,
Outstanding job on the identification of Plane tree zelts!! You made it easy to understand. This type of info should be pinned so that every member who collects SS zelts can refer to it easily. I think I'm going to cut and paste your info as a guide on my computer!! Simply fantastic, mein Freund!!

Sepp

[paulj]

Thanks for your reply. The information clarifies something most collectors have never understood.

Here's another photo of mine.

[paulj]

and one more

[Fritz]

Fritz,
Outstanding job on the identification of Plane tree zelts!! You made it easy to understand. This type of info should be pinned so that every member who collects SS zelts can refer to it easily. I think I'm going to cut and paste your info as a guide on my computer!! Simply fantastic, mein Freund!!

Sepp

Good to hear it is of help!!

[Fritz]

Thanks for your reply. The information clarifies something most collectors have never understood.

Here's another photo of mine.

That picture shows the so called "Grundlinie", this is the "buttom line" of the zelt, in the case of this zelt the material wasn't cut were it should have been cut, it was supposed to be cut between those block shaped prints. That picture shows a part of the cutting line very well, thanks for that!!

I didn't manage to take pictures of the internal grommet reinforcement today, so I will have to wait til tomorrow when there is more time.

Thanks!!

Fritz

[camo master]

Hi Fritz - regarding the potential of Palm zelts, I would be very interested to know what your reliable sources would be.

The reason Im asking - a collector friend of mine has one which we've discussed in great detail. He's pretty sure it's original. I've seen photos of it but I really cant comment until I get to see and touch it. I'd be very interested in knowing if original sources exist that can substantial the existance of Palm zelts.

I have a fair number of zelts in my collection - close to 70 now with roughly 2/3rds being SS zelts so have a pretty good idea what's real and not.
Thanks in advance
Mark

[Fritz]

Hi Fritz - regarding the potential of Palm zelts, I would be very interested to know what your reliable sources would be.

The reason Im asking - a collector friend of mine has one which we've discussed in great detail. He's pretty sure it's original. I've seen photos of it but I really cant comment until I get to see and touch it. I'd be very interested in knowing if original sources exist that can substantial the existance of Palm zelts.

I have a fair number of zelts in my collection - close to 70 now with roughly 2/3rds being SS zelts so have a pretty good idea what's real and not.
Thanks in advance
Mark

Adavanced collectors that got to see what they believed original pieces.

To me the chances are good that pieces in plam did and still do exsist.

It would be interesting to hear more about the piece your friend has.

Thanks!

Fritz

[Fritz]

Here are two pictures that show a piece of splinter pattern fabric that was used as a reinforcement for the large corner grommet on factory level. Things like these are not visible on undamaged zelts, also note the unprinted side of the materail that was used to reinforce the outlines on the zelt's autumn side.