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**Felix** · 07-17-2007, 03:04 PM

I dont think that skull is original. Eagle looks fine though!

"Felix" - N. Hansson

**Reiner** · 07-17-2007, 10:53 PM

OK, sirs, an eagle is good, but what about the skull??? Let me hear all your opinions

**Sayle F** · 07-17-2007, 10:58 PM

The totenkopf is an original Assmann from what I see

as well as an original m1 / 167 eagle

**Reiner** · 07-18-2007, 11:46 AM

The skull

Attached Files

крупно.jpg (59.3 KB, 200 views)

**Reiner** · 07-18-2007, 11:48 AM

More

Attached Files

крупно2.jpg (86.0 KB, 199 views)

**bwanek1** · 07-18-2007, 12:37 PM

The eagle is a perfectly fine (though in poor condition) original die-struck zinc Hicke; it is NOT a cast fake. There is no concern about the number of pins; Hicke eagles were made with both two and three pins. Also, no cast copy can duplicate those round crimps to attach the pins.

As for the TK, it looks fairly plainly like one of the three-edge-pronged skulls generally considered to be only of post-war manufacture, though they very closely resemble the unmarked Assmann TKs and some argue that they are, themselves, original Assmann TKs of very late-war manufacture. [I used to be among those who believed in the late-war side-pronged Assmann theory, but I have since become convinced to take the more widely held position that they are post-war. See this thread from a year ago on the topic, in which I expressed the opinion, which I no longer hold: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=165732]

In this case, it looks like someone removed the integral edge prongs and tried to replace them with round, soldered pins which more closely resemble those found on the known-original unmarked Assmann TKs. Then it appears to have been artificially aged to help conceal the poor workmanship.

Here is a comparison of this TK with one of the side-pronged TKs:

**Reiner** · 07-18-2007, 01:03 PM

Thanks for your info, Bwanek1!
Yes, there are 3 traces of the prongs on the skull.
So, I believe, I will pass on this one...

**Bob Hritz** · 07-18-2007, 01:11 PM

I am a believer that the three prong Assmann skulls were produced wartime, but saw little use. I know of one textbook visor hat with a three prong skull. I tried to buy it for years, but he got a much higher offer and sold the hat.

I would assume that these were found in great quantity, after the war. they were used on the post-war Alteste hats, along with original Assmann eagles.

Just because they were found on old Dr. Breuyer's Allteste hats (along with original Assmann eagles), does not mean they are fake.

Of course, I am not going to argue the point and each collector can believe and collect what he chooses.

Bob Hritz

**besslein** · 07-18-2007, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Bob Hritz View Post

I am a believer that the three prong Assmann skulls were produced wartime, but saw little use. I know of one textbook visor hat with a three prong skull. I tried to buy it for years, but he got a much higher offer and sold the hat.

I would assume that these were found in great quantity, after the war. they were used on the post-war Alteste hats, along with original Assmann eagles.

Just because they were found on old Dr. Breuyer's Allteste hats (along with original Assmann eagles), does not mean they are fake.

Of course, I am not going to argue the point and each collector can believe and collect what he chooses.

Bob Hritz

I agree with you Bob, this skull is for me 1000% original

**dhunter93** · 07-18-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by bwanek1 View Post

The eagle is a perfectly fine (though in poor condition) original die-struck zinc Hicke; it is NOT a cast fake. There is no concern about the number of pins; Hicke eagles were made with both two and three pins. Also, no cast copy can duplicate those round crimps to attach the pins.

As for the TK, it looks fairly plainly like one of the three-edge-pronged skulls generally considered to be only of post-war manufacture, though they very closely resemble the unmarked Assmann TKs and some argue that they are, themselves, original Assmann TKs of very late-war manufacture. [I used to be among those who believed in the late-war side-pronged Assmann theory, but I have since become convinced to take the more widely held position that they are post-war. See this thread from a year ago on the topic, in which I expressed the opinion, which I no longer hold: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=165732]

In this case, it looks like someone removed the integral edge prongs and tried to replace them with round, soldered pins which more closely resemble those found on the known-original unmarked Assmann TKs. Then it appears to have been artificially aged to help conceal the poor workmanship.

Here is a comparison of this TK with one of the side-pronged TKs:

First off I have seen cast aluminum fake SS eagles with the three round prongs posted on this site and in person. I do not like the eagle because it looks cast and it looks like it has been aged to make it look ground dug. It also lacks detail (feathers/head/wraith). All that combined with it's partner the artificially aged fake skull would make me run away!

The bigger problem I see is that known fakes are being execpted as real because they are now old fakes. I also believe dealers are using this forum to authenticate fakes for future sale on their own web pages.

**besslein** · 07-18-2007, 02:42 PM