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**jimt** · 06-22-2007, 07:50 AM

panzer tunic

I would really like to hear Brian Singer thoughts on this jacket ? For panzer items he is the best I think.......
jimtoncar

**B. N. Singer** · 06-22-2007, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Jim Toncar View Post

I would really like to hear Brian Singer thoughts on this jacket ? For panzer items he is the best I think.......
jimtoncar

Hi Jim, as always, you are too kind but thank you!

Old friend, search your memory, you HAVE seen this piece at Cincy!!!

For the record, I couldn't care less about trying to convince people (in favor of or against) but my hat is off to those who did not dismiss this out of hand. It is not an item to easily render judgment on from pictures.

The truth, as far as I have known for well over thirty years, is that the details related by TGN are accurate; and I have to believe the seller of the wraparound knows this as well. I am also certain that there are other "older cadre" collectors who might know of both this jacket and the collector who originally found it as well as some of the circumstances of how it was found.

And just for a bit of "additional spice" as an aside to the piece, there was purported to have been an accompanying "black baseball hat," that was lost by the vet's son in a child's baseball game!!!!!

B. N. Singer

**derka** · 06-22-2007, 08:06 AM

re,

Tom,

i never wrote this wrapper is not original.

the fact that it is not completely a textbook one is not a problem for me,
as for Steve and others, i guess.

but i'm just trying to understand better about the particular point of relining,
and to learn.

there might be an explaination i didn't even think to.

and i may be completly wrong with my questions.

so others opinions would be helpful,
of course including yours,
as you have the very advantage to see it.

regards
derka

**BlackBelt** · 06-22-2007, 08:12 AM

What's the story behind the wrap? Why so secretive?

BlackBelt

**hochiminhtrail** · 06-22-2007, 08:35 AM

lets take the point of view that the wrapper is 100% original even with the odd lining, how easy (or difficult) would it be to resell it?

We have to rembember that we are talking about a lot of cash here i guess, and i m not only talking about this non text book item, but hundreds of others non text book items in the collectors comunity.

How is the non text book item affecting the value of the item?

What collector would like to gamble even when he knows its 100% original, there will allways be a last question mark by fellow collectors.

it s sad that an item that can be good looses value because of the last doubt.

Cheers

Alex

**Luca Ongaro** · 06-22-2007, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by tgn View Post

Gosh, I am starting to know how JohnPic feels

Tom

Me too and the same already happened to me with a HG wrap I posted.
Some comments were ridicules no one valid reason in order to think was a fake

In my opinion hand inspection is needed before give the last word with a wrap like this, but has good chance to be an authentic wrap with really nice insigna.
Just my opinion.
Luca

**billmunny** · 06-22-2007, 08:53 AM

textbook..

I know its difficult to separate the financial aspect of our hobby, but personally, if an item was used war-time, the provenance is known, and the item is as beautiful as this SS wrap, who the hell cares if its textbook...

?

I'd be over the moon to own such a piece, knowing that the item saw the war. The anomalies make it that much more interesting in my book, and if and when the item gets passed on to another collector, hopefully someone will likewise appreciate the charachter of something that was used by real soldiers during the war...

As to the black "baseball hat" that came with wrap being lost to time by the vet's son....interesting bit of the wrap's lore/provenance, but I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry

!

**B. N. Singer** · 06-22-2007, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by billmunny View Post

...As to the black "baseball hat" that came with wrap being lost to time by the vet's son....interesting bit of the wrap's lore/provenance, but I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry

!

Well Sir,

I know that I for one cried!!!

B. N. Singer

**jacquesf** · 06-22-2007, 10:31 AM

Andre, who is selling the wrapper? Jacques

**AndreM** · 06-22-2007, 11:10 AM

.

Jacques it is being offered by a dealer in Chicago but he has told me it belonged to B.N. Singer.

**Bob Coleman** · 06-22-2007, 11:41 AM

Having Been From The Chicago Area, I Also Know The Provenance Of This Jacket. This Proves Once Again That Provenance And The Knowledge Of Those Who Know It Mean Nothing In Today's Collector's World. If The Item Does Not Meet The Supposed Expectations Of Those Who Have Never Even Owned Such An Example, What More Can Be Said? I Have A Brand New Leather Jacket That Has Had The Lining Replaced In It Three Times In Six Years. My Jacket Therefore Is Also Not Original To The Manufacturer. In 1945, The Majority Of Items In The 3rd Reich Arsenal That Had Been Issued Were No Longer In The Same Condition When They Left The Manufacturer. Gentlemen, It Is Called "the Human Element." Of Course, I Wish To Make It Clear, These Comments Are Not Intended To Sway The Opinion Of Any Of Our Knowledgable Colleagues.

**B. N. Singer** · 06-22-2007, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by AndreM View Post

...he has told me it belonged to B.N. Singer.

Not that it should matter in the evaluation of the piece but, that is Correct information

B. N. Singer

**PANZERPIONIERE** · 06-22-2007, 12:01 PM

Now the story just got interesting Bryon.

Steve

**Greg Domian** · 06-22-2007, 12:23 PM

I will jump in here now and give my opinions on this wrap and other thoughs. I had this wrap in hand for about 2 weeks to photograph it and have time to "play" with it. It is a joy to have something like this in ones hands knowing that it is one of the truely finest wraps I have seen or handled. God knows I can't afford it but if I could it would be in my collection now. The wear and look of the warp is consistant with it being nicely used. Insignia looks to be nicely embeded in the tunic material and the sleeve eagle is like butter. Of course my opinion does not hold the weight that someone as Bryon Singer holds. And I will now comment to Bryon and his notion that the fact he once owned this wrap holds no water in it's discussion. I think it does. We have gone 5 pages now and a lot of questions have been brought up about textbook originality, replacement linings, heer, SS, why, whynot, etc. We know Bryon is dedicated and forensic in his disection of material to worm out original from fake. I don't think Bryon would have a piece in his collection if for one moment he though there was an issue about it. That in itself is enough for me to feel comfortable with a piece like this weather it had a provanance story or not. The fact this one does and it goes back to the early years of this hobby only lends more creadance that this is a righteous wrap. I think the buyer should know this and know that if and when he comes time to sell it that it coming from a Bryon Singer collection rather than Joe Blows collection means a great deal. Obviously it is the piece that will sell itself.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Greg

**bnz. 42** · 06-22-2007, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by tgn View Post

You guys are really comical. Think what you want, criticise all you want, nit pick it all you want, wonder all you want...

Originally posted by Bob Coleman View Post

I Also Know The Provenance Of This Jacket. This Proves Once Again That Provenance And The Knowledge Of Those Who Know It Mean Nothing In Today's Collector's World. If The Item Does Not Meet The Supposed Expectations Of Those Who Have Never Even Owned Such An Example, What More Can Be Said?
...
Of Course, I Wish To Make It Clear, These Comments Are Not Intended To Sway The Opinion Of Any Of Our Knowledgable Colleagues.

No one said this wrap is fake. No one tried to "Sway The Opinion Of Any Of Our Knowledgeable Colleagues" here. C'mon, guys, relax already. We just looked at pictures and stated what we saw - replaced lining (except in sleeves) taken from a greatcoat. We never seen this piece before and those who knew the provenance of this jacket did not participate in the discussion. So what to cry about?

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