Maybe it's just my eyesight or the photograph (#4) but the waffenfarben and the underlay look a bit thick to me.
Bob
Bob
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Originally posted by Bobwirtz View Post
I agree, this is not how boards with secondary piping are constructed, it looks to me as if someone has taken a HEER set of straps and just sewn on a black underlay trying to make them into ss straps, notice the arrows in the photo below, the Russia braid should go into the base cloth not the waffenfarbe, hence there appearance as mentioned above by BOB W.
Sorry these are messed with IMO
cheers
GaryLast edited by Gary Wood; 09-01-2008, 02:22 PM.Comment
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Sometimes I'm hesitant to say something but every time I came back to this thread and looked at photo #4, something just wasn't right. I guess my new contact lenses work okay! Also for smoke troops (Nebelwerfer) I think the color needs to be darker. Here are some photos I took of an SS-Untersturmfuhrer of Nebelwerfer tunic and shoulder straps for comparison.
BobComment
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Good call by Bob and Gary. I don't usually post because I have so few it wouldn't carry any weight. Now that they have posted I can at least add an "amen" to their posts. I noticed what Gary points out that the upper litzen doesn't tuck into the black base at it should. Someone thought they could just take the base off a set of pioneer boards and make a set of kosher SS officer boards. At a casual glance they might pass, but upon closer examination they go down in flames. Thanks Bob and Gary.
RichardComment
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Amen, Brother!
BobComment
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Well, I'm definitely learning...
I wasn't comfortable with the straps for the same reasons pointed out by Bob and Gary, but was afraid to comment because of A., the positive responses they were getting and B., simply due to the fear of just being called out for being wrong, but it looks like my initial reaction might just be right after all. I guess I am learning something here after all...
I'll tell you, SS cloth is one tough and challenging area of this hobby!!!
RobComment
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Boards
Thanks, they are thick indeed. They are very well constructed and not made of the base of an engineering board but seperate pieces of badge cloth-type black wool. The waffenfarbe is correct for nebel. I have several examples of Heer straps and collar tabs and it falls in comfortably with those.
My main question is are they tailor made period or later fakes and I think it is impossible to answer that.
Are the rank tabs and eagles okay or are there problems there as well. With Manions it is always hit and miss because of the acuracy of descriptions etc. some times you get lucky other times burned.
jComment
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Boards
I took the boards over to an advanced collector friend of mine and he looked at them. His comment was that they are real and early war, the examples shown on the thread are the rayon weave not wool and thinner. These appear to be be real examples of sew in boards. The siuation also supports this, they were with the other real insignia-if someone went to that much work and they were faked why would someone sell all the insignia for 350 dollars? makes little sense to me. The bottom line is that there is no one way to make a board, there is no type, we will never know all the varations but after 30 years of collecting these look good to me.Comment
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jhodgson: "These appear to be be real examples of sew in boards."
I disagree. Sewn in boards wouldn't be finished on the end and would have extra length to go into the sleeve seam. They could have sewn to the top of the tunic, acting like slip on style as they are finished on the end. But not a conventional sew in board. As long as you're happy with them, that is what really counts.
BobComment
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boards
These are not issue sew in boards, they had straps at one time that were removed to make the boards suitable for sewing in a tunic. This is why they look odd. I am pretty sure they are real and period modified, the black is not haphazardly stuck to the upper part of the board it is very diligently sewn to the waffenfarbe piece as it should be.Comment
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Originally posted by jhodgson View Post
Why? do you have other such examples constructed in this way?.
What I think is someone tried to make these into a set of SS panzer straps and added the "101", the colour of the pining is not Bordeaux red its more a pink/purple colour in the photo's, and despite what you and your local advanced collector has said they still look to me and others that they have been a set of army straps that "someone" has added the black base to without dismantling the original HEER strap, that is why the russia braid does not finish in the black base cloth as it should do, the extra piece of cloth sewn to the back is nothing more than an attempt to try to hide this fact,
I have seen many examples of straps that have been messed with in this way some better than others, in the past it was an easy way for some to make money as army straps were very cheap I can remember them around the $6.00 a pair for enlisted ranks and even less in some cases for officers HEER straps, they even took army EM straps apart for the rayon piping also to construct sets of SS officers straps, some have even been known to take HEER and LW straps and dye them black then re sew in the piping to make them SS straps
cheers
Gary
PS the other bits, tabs and eagles I do not have problem withLast edited by Gary Wood; 04-09-2007, 08:23 AM.Comment
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Boards
Upon closer comparison with other nebel insignia in the collection the piping is closer to the purple color for JAG (Justice) branch then nebel or panzer. The boards may be junk but if they are they were made very carefully and by someone with a lot of skill (sans ethics). This is one where I will surrender and side with your expertise, my area is Military archaeology, Army Uniforms, and Insignia and field gear. Thanks for the input, a least the profit loss is well covered by the other insignia in this case.
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