Unmarked Cap Eagle

[BenVK]

I always thought this one to be authentic but a few friends have recently expressed their doubts. Although it's unmarked, I believe it to be an original Assmann made or supplied bird, made from very thin zinc or "pot" metal as I call it.
The odd thing is the excess metal in places on the front. I was told that these are casting marks but I don't think so. I can't explain why they are there but IMO, this isn't a cast badge.
BTW, the collectors guild has the exact same style of eagle for sale at the moment and Gerd posted a similar one on the forum a while back.
Any comments welcome.
Cheers
Ben

[BenVK]

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[bwanek1]

Looks like a cast fake to me.

The one on the Collector's Guild site is an original.

Brad

[BenVK]

Thanks Brad,

After looking at it again I noticed an area which would indicate a stamping rather than a casting. I've highlighted where the front die doesn't quite match the reverse die which has left a sharp "step" in the corresponding feathers. I'm not an expert in metal working but I would say it's impossible to reproduce these kind of tiny sharp 90 degree angles in a casting.

Any thoughts?

[PHILBROWN]

it looks good to me, i would have thought that a cast fake WOULD have a maker mark on the reverse to throw the buyer, i say its good, not every thig in this world is perfectly cast, ask my girlfriend phil [waiting to be shot down in the usual flames]

[SScollector]

It's hard for me to imagine how anyone who has studied many original
SS eagles for any length of time, could possibly believe that this is an original. In fact, it's not even a good fake, and yes, I have seen cast fakes that are 10 times better than this one, that have rather nice edges.
Ben, why would you think that those stamped edges could not come out
rather nicely in a casting?

Anyway, if you think that you know more than the rest of us,
then that is your right, but I'm afraid that you will not be able to
convince many people on this forum, that it is an original because
it is certainly not. The one on the Collector's Guild site appears to be
an original.

Best, Chris

[BenVK]

Wow, Chris, I must congratulate you my friend. It's quite a feat to cram so many arrogant and condescending comments into so few sentences.

I respect your knowledge about these bits of metal. However, don't forget that only 2 or 3 years ago, you knew as little about them as the rest of us. You have done a lot of research yourself and I commend you for that but you also got a lot of generous help along the way from fellow collectors. One only has to read your early posts here and on the GD forum to confirm that.

For someone so utterly convinced of their own expertise, some of your comments are strangely contradictory. You say that this is "not even a good fake" yet you also ask "why would you think that those stamped edges could not come out rather nicely in a casting?" So, this eagle is a terrible fake but with rather nice details?! That doesn't make sense I'm afraid.

My favorite bit however is:

"Anyway, if you think that you know more than the rest of us,
then that is your right, but I'm afraid that you will not be able to
convince many people on this forum, that it is an original because
it is certainly not."

So, you now claim to be able to read people's minds as well as being the spokesman for other people on the forum. Actualy, the first part of statement is a more accurate reflection of yourself than of me although maybe it should read:

"I know that I know more than the rest of you and it is my right to convince many people on this forum"

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing as they say and I'm afraid your in danger of believing your own hype. Listen man, I know that you can be an abrasive character. It doesn't really bother me usualy but I think you've gone a bit too far this time. Go back and read your own post again. If you can come to any other conclusion other than your basically calling me stupid in the first part and arrogant in the second, I'll take back everything I've said.

Over to you mate, still love you by the way!

Ok, lets get back to the eagle in question and I'll make it as plain as I can. I posted it because I am simply unsure whether this eagle is an original TR item or not. I am NOT trying to convince anybody of anything. This for my own piece of mind and to hopefully educate other collectors as well. I too am able to do my own research....the twin brother of this eagle was posted on the GD forum a while ago and declared original by people there. I've also seen two identical eagles sold as original on a respected dealers site as well. If it's a fake, no problem but let's hear some facts about why it is please!

Cheers
Ben

[willysproject]

Hello all,

What would be your thoughts on this one? It's an unmarked one as well... Sorry for the very bad pictures... I can make better ones outside, but it just keeps on raining overhere today..

kind regards,
Gerd V

[SScollector]

Well, I figured that you would probably get upset whenever I spoke
the truth about this eagle, since you were trying to sell it to someone that I know. I really love the fact that you can't say anything to back up your fake eagle, so instead, you just try to put words into my mouth and rearrange all of my words and their meanings, because this is all that you can do.
In my opinion, this really shows your true colors, but I ask you to do this:
Please explain to the forum, why I am wrong about your eagle.
Before you put me down, you should first, be able to prove me wrong.
So please, show us how you can prove me wrong about the eagle and stop wasting the forum's time with this childish BS.

As for the last eagle posted, congrats on an original.

Best,
Chris

[BenVK]

Be careful Chris, who I sell to is none of your business. Posting comments like that on an open forum is slander and totaly out of order.

You've forced me to go on the record now even though it was a private matter. I bought this eagle in good faith from a forum member who also believed it to be original. The eagle was placed on a WSS Officers Cap that I offered for sale to another well known forum member. He told me that he had doubts about the eagle. No money changed hands and the cap is back with me now.

When someone tells you that what you thought was real is actualy not, the right thing to do is post it for opinions. You say it's fake, fine, I've no problem with that and I'm not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong.

However, you say Gerd's eagle is original. To me both eagles look identical so what are the differences?