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Originally posted by Lorenz
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......Originally posted by LorenzComment
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.......Originally posted by LorenzComment
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........Originally posted by LorenzComment
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Here are some pictures of the Germania jacket.
Morten.Comment
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tunic
Hello all,
Now, did we ever find out if the insignia was applied during the war?
I always thought the SS-VT was a pre-war group, am I missing something?
Please let me know either way. Thank you.
William KramerPlease visit my site: https://wehrmacht-militaria.com/Comment
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Hi all,
Bringing up an old tread.
To answer your question! The conclusion was that all insignias were original but not added during the war.Original message by all1knew
Hello all,
Now, did we ever find out if the insignia was applied during the war?
I always thought the SS-VT was a pre-war group, am I missing something?
Please let me know either way. Thank you.
William Kramer
So the tunic was stripped of all insignias (not by me), and the insignias were sold separately except the collar tab for Hauptscharfurer that I now have together with this tunic.
The tunic now has original insignias added by me. Not a nice job so one day I will probably take it to a tailor to get it done in a proper way.
But what is your option regarding this tunic? Is it a rare tunic, a fantasy tunic or what? As you can see the tunic has 4 buttons in front and a device under the collar to button it similar to the M37 tunic. At least one of the buttons got “39” stamped on it. It has never had an eagle applied on the right side chest.
This tunic was discussed some years ago at the German daggers forum. By some reason I can not open the link anymore but the original tread was found here http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums...6380010772/p/1
I got some of the text from this tread send to me in an email by Morten B who I got this tunic from. Sadly I do not know who wrote this text but maybe Morten remember or maybe even the one that wrote it back then.
So what do you think?Originally posted in German daggers forum.
First let me say that my response on this tunic will be a bit long winded (as usual) so if you don't want to torture yourself by reading my reasoning and thoughts on it, I will give you my conclusion right up front:
I believe the tunic is a circa 1940 (or late 39) all original SS-VT/W-SS issue...including the insignia.
Second, I want to say that several others,esp. Isahhq, have provided you with some very keen and little known aspects of 'tunic study'. My comments will not be anything radical to their observations, but I will try and tie some points together.
At first glance the tunic you posted appears to be a nice, but standard, Heer contract tunic set up with 1939/20 era SS insignia. The question always comes to mind; When was the insignia placed on the tunic? 1939 or 1999?
Where your posted tunic is interesting is upon closer inspection:
1. The ink stampings in uniforms were not applied by the maker, but rather transcribed (in part, not entirley) from the makers paper tag by the Issuing authority...generally a Depot. These markings do not reflect a Heer Depot practice either in compositon or placement. The unusual placement is however very typical of where the SS marked tunics in the 30's and I believe in this case at least 1940! There is no deopt letter nor date present and I feel sure that this tunic never went thru an Army depot. Meaning it had to have been ordered from a manufacturer directly.
2. The under collar tab and button is identical to the arrangement provided on what you called the 'M37' SS tunic. These early Earth Grey tunics were actually made as early as 1935. As Scott pointed out, this arrangement is similar but different to the under-collar tab buttoning tab used by Heer GBJ tunics and is more similar to the Luft. Tuch Rock (or whatever the darn things are) by this EXACT style is unique to the early SS 4 button tunics that I mentioned above.
3. Where the rub comes in with your tunic is that it has Patch/pleated lower pockets. Every known contract SS tunic up until about 1940 has Slash/hidden lower pockets. This fact would make your tunic, at least in my mind, one of the very first SS contract (as opposed to simply transferred Heer stock) W-SS era tunics.
4. The other unusual aspect of this tunic is that it retains the 4 button front (apparantly) rather than a 5 button traditional closed collar design which the SS-VT was transitioning to in about 38/39. We know that the cuff title is at least by published regulation made after Dec.39. I will also add that it is possible that some of this style were made and issued a bit before the Dec 39 reg was published....this happened in many documented cases of insignia and uniform styles.
I would love a chance to really go over the tunic as I suspect one can find many interesting and unusual details. Check the back marks on the buttons for dates and markings as well.
In closing, all you have to do is check for a trace of a former Heer breast eagle. I doubt that you will find one, just as there is no trace of the Heer collar litzen. They were never there as this tunic was never Heer property. That is my feeling based on you photos.
I think that you have an ultra rare and basically un-documented (until now) example of the very first type all SS contracted "Heer style" (except for the pseudo open collar) SS-VT/W-SS combat tunic.
It must be verified in hand, but I will offer an early CONGRATULATIONS, pending verification.
Everything seems 100% legit to me and if so, this would be a left at home tunic of a SS NCO KIA in France or perhaps Russia (or 1941 Balkins) who never had the chance to really wear it or 'update' the SS2 collar tab.
I truly hope that you keep all of us posted as this un-folds. On the surface this strikes me as one of the most exciting SS uniform finds in the 4 years I have been on the forum.
With regards,
Stian
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Hi all,
A little observation regarding the location of the stamping inside this tunic.
In the book “Uniforms of the Waffen-SS” book 1 by Michael D. Beaver on page 118 at the bottom there is a picture of a field service blouse. There is a large size stamp in the lining to the left in the back. The lining is different on these two tunics but was this common practice for some SS tunics?
Regards,
StianComment
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