Show Us Your Branch-Piped W-SS Visor

[BenVK]

Difficult to judge the cap itself from these photos but the insignia is 100% original IMO.
Cheers
Ben

[Lucky Duck]

Dennis, that's a strange cap. The external top material is so wrong, it could almost be good again... as a forger who knew enough to get some of the other details right should have been knowledgable enough to get the correct top material easily. That said, the overall cap has to my eyes, the slightly unnatural look of something that's been meddled with. Just a humble opinion based on your photos.

Sincerely,
Ray

[Dennis S]

Gentlemen, Thank You for your insight. Like I mentioned before the hat has had some repair work to it. The top wool in question if not dicernable from the photos is a thick almost like Italian type coarse or late war wool , but a little softer to the the touch. I know these hats were supposed to be manufactored during a different time frame. If anyone would like to pm on the particular points you like or dislike without giving the show away please do.
Also does any one know any history of the maker "Record" - German? Foreign?

[Bob Coleman]

My gut feeling is this is an older(20+ years)Frankenstein cap. I agree that the insignia appear to be period originals. I would withold any final judgement based upon a hands on inspection. it does remind me of another Frankenstein I had the opportunity to examine around five years ago. This one was complete with East German Theatrical Company markings.
Bob

[Dennis S]

Bob, Ben,Bruce, Ray and company , Thanks for the insight. I know it needs a real hands on for a real yea or nay. Those possible Frankensteins may always live in Limbo . If you want any other shots let me know. I am trying to improve my digital photography skills anyway.

Any help on that Record company logo from anyone.

[BenVK]

Hi Dennis, looking at the photos again, I would say that the sweatband has most definitely been re-stitched and whoever did it wasn't the most skilled person in the world. Look at the thread holding the liner as well, it's very thick, almost like cord.

[Dennis S]

Ben , Agreed I am aware of that work but, do you think thats a collector's repair or work of the a Dr Frankenstein faker.

Did the good faker Doctor do this band as in this picture (not bad work if you ask me)and let his assistant finish it off with the sloppy job as you pointed out in the photo you noted.

I agree this hat is funky and could very well be a Frankenstein.

I am as confused about this hat. Does anyone know of a specific area I can check were a Dr Frankenstein would have to leave his mark

[Donald Abenheim]

Frankenstein

There are several criteria here that would point me towards the conclusion the cap is assembled. In particular, the treated cotton water proof lining is always fragile after nearly 70 years. Hence, if it is removed from one cap, it can likely rip. Such is the case here and someone has repaired it. There are other signs of doubt here, as well, which I shall remain unexplored in an open forum. If this is a put together cap, it was done with considerable effort and skill. However, the raw materials of such age defy an attempt to reassemble in a bomb proof manner.

[Antiquefrog]

I thank colleagues DA, BenVK and Bob C., among others, for their input on this unusual submission. Most educational, especially the thread variance and liner observations, and the apparent originality of the badges. This is exactly what this thread is trying to unearth. A major objective here is to learn from our mistakes - we have all made at least one (I know I have), and the goal is to avoid another. We all await, checkbooks in hand, for a submission that will pass this crusty panel.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

I have an update on my gebirsjager crusher posted recently.

Colleague SSCollector was as we know, correct about the insignia, I have been informed that the cap was sourced insignia less and a repro set added (unknown to me) I have not actually had a good look at the metal. A correct set will be sourced and fitted as and when, the cap is original.

This cap came from the former East German propaganda film studios two years ago, when they sold off stocks of third reich uniforms from their highly successful cold war victory films. As you all know, the Soviet block didn't need to make German Uniforms for their films as the confiscated most of the remaining ones from stores etc after the collapse.

As a point of note to the branch piping issue. There were a large number of "ORIGINAL" SS Branch piped crushers and Visors sold off at the same time. This would lead to the extra caps in circulation.

I am also a believer in the maxim that although regulations changed in 1940 due to Himmler not wanting his elite to be rabble like the common army, it is dangerous to say that no more coloured branch piped visors were ever made for the Waffen SS during world war two. (Army crushers had a wear out date as well). If an officer approaches a tailor and requests a coloured piped ss visor, what do you think the tailor will say. "That's 8 marks and on your own head if your Sgt Major Objects" is my opinion.

as a reminder, here is my cap again, side on

http://www.geocities.com/jolrea/6.jpg

[Bob Coleman]

Sturmbannfuhrer-
The story about the sold off caps from an East German production company is an urban legend started by those who want the uninformed to believe. I was sent a branch piped NCO hat with such dubious stamps around six years ago. It was total junk. I will never be able to convince those "who want to believe." Sometimes it is difficult in this hobby to come to the realization that you have been had. some never come to that point.
Bob

[sturmbannfuhrer]

Hi Bob, two long time dealer associates of mine were there, it is I assure you, no legend.

[Antiquefrog]

Colleague Sturmbannfuhrer - I think the jury is in on this (see postings 1/28); badges apparently wrong (no sin), but cap appears suspect on several levels.

[Bob Coleman]

Hi Bob, two long time dealer associates of mine were there, it is I assure you, no legend.

Unfortunately, the bitter truth is that the majority of dealers testimony these days is quite suspect. If this many authentic period branch piped visor caps went in to circulation within the past few years, I or one of my close collecting colleagues would of heard about it. The collecting world is quite small wnen it comes to important discoveries.
Bob

[Dave Kane]

Hi Dennis, looking at the photos again, I would say that the sweatband has most definitely been re-stitched and whoever did it wasn't the most skilled person in the world. Look at the thread holding the liner as well, it's very thick, almost like cord.

Ben, the palate is comming along nicely!!!

Sturmbannfuhrer....listen to the advises of those who know!<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_1269388", true); </SCRIPT>