Show Us Your Branch-Piped W-SS Visor

[Antiquefrog]

Colleague Dennis S. - Could you provide scan of maker's mark. Photos of insignia not encouraging; M1/52 TK often faked, and this pic washed-out. Reverse of eagle seems stark and newish, but possibly lighting. Give us better photos - rear seam, visor underside and attachment to cap, and maker's logo.

[Antiquefrog]

A reply to colleague Coleman's earlier comment: 1) This is a harsh jury - I daresay many of us would mortgage the ranch for an EM or officer's branch-piped cap that has survived this pounding, even at speculated prices. I know I would. 2) Agree that (genuine) grey visors are less common than black ones, especially in good shape, but would note that, statistically, the black officer's visor is the least-encountered among white-piped caps as a category on major websites. For whatever reason, aside from evident rarity, it is less faked or converted. My data show it is offered only once for every 26 EM black visors, which, actually, is remarkably close to officer/EM ratios in relevant SS-VT, TK, SD and general A-SS enlistment information in the 1936-1939 period. This is a complicated subject, but because black visors are seldom faked (relatively), there is a huge value discrepancy here at today's prices. 3) Grey caps are, of course, a different matter - both white- piped versions are widely faked, and who knows what their true rarity factors are - data show the EM/ officer ratio at only 6:1 on major websites during survey period (caps described as authentic and apparently sold). Condition rarity, which I have not tracked (regrettably), would add another layer of analysis. 4) For you number-crunchers, analyzing EM visors only (where I have a pretty big base), black offerings outnumber grey offerings about 2.7-1. Discounting veracity of many grey caps, the ratio would be even higher. Hope this is of some value to potential buyers in this field.

[Bob Coleman]

Bruce-
I applaud this most informative thread you have started. Further, I find your research on pieces available on various web sites quite fascinating. Without a doubt, black officer visor caps should outnumber gray versions for several reasons. First, every SS officer, except those who entered during the war, would have had at least one black visor. I have noticed that collectors always seem to refer to the black uniform as the "Allgemeine" uniform. Of course, this is incorrect as the Allgemeine SS is completely different from the SS-VT, the Totenkopf Verband and the SD.
all of which wore the black uniform as a dress uniform. I also agree that the black officer hats these days are encountered seldom in respect to their gray counterpart(which are not stacked up awaiting buyers either). I would attribute this to Hollywood's depiction of the SS in the black uniform, a sterotype that has carried through since the late 30's to this day as the quisesetenial symbol of the SS. If you are not an SS collector but want a SS visor cap, I think the black is a natural collectable over its gray counterpart. We all know that the black uniform was seldom worn during the war years. That would make black hats more available to the victors than gray hats as they could be sourced out of barracks and private homes. Finally, gray visors would have more of a chance of being destroyed in combat where the black couterparts were warm and snug in a storage locker or closet.
A great thread to which I hope all pay serious attention to the advise and knowledge being shared.
Bob

[Dennis S]

Here are some more photos of the cap. I tried a soft spot light and a tripod, but I don't think they are a hell of a lot better.m I did manage some close ups of the logo. I had this hat at least 15 years. It looks to
have quite a few repairs. I am thinking its a wartime hat, but I always felt it may be a Frankenstein.

[Dennis S]

maker mark

[Dennis S]

brim to brim to sweatband

[Dennis S]

piping and seam

[Dennis S]

skull front

[Dennis S]

skull back , looks like prongs repaired

[Dennis S]

eagle front

[Dennis S]

eagle back

[Dennis S]

another shot of the maker
notice the stitched liner.

[Dennis S]

liner to swaetband to brim

[Dennis S]

piping, I can't find a start or end to the piping on the hat

[Antiquefrog]

Colleague DennisS - This does not seem right on many counts - would colleagues Bob C. and DA, and other members, please offer their considered opinions.